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Are Anti-Mormons Christians?
FAIR ^ | Russell McGregor

Posted on 03/16/2010 10:51:13 AM PDT by Paragon Defender

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1 posted on 03/16/2010 10:51:13 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender

Christians believe only the Bible. Mormons believe that their little fantasy writings overrule the Bible. This is not hard.


2 posted on 03/16/2010 10:54:55 AM PDT by Vindibudd
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To: Paragon Defender

Tastes Great or Less Filling?


3 posted on 03/16/2010 10:57:30 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: Vindibudd

Anti-Mormon is one thing. Anti-Mormonism is something completely different. I’m not anti-Mormon because, for example, I have Mormon friends. I’m anti-Mormonism because I do not believe in the foundations of their faith.


4 posted on 03/16/2010 10:57:37 AM PDT by Andyman (The truth shall make you FReep.)
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To: Paragon Defender
Notwithstanding all of the above, Latter-day Saints are, and continue to be, more than willing to allow these folk the right to call themselves Christians. All we ask is that they return the same courtesy.

Sorry, but words have meaning, and beliefs have consequences. I like the Mormons I've known personally, but their beliefs are not those of Christianity. Calling green 'purple' only confuses things. Theologically the gulf between monotheistic Christians (even defined very broadly) and polytheistic Mormons are vast.

Or to put it another way, it is inconsistent to call Mormons 'Christians' and then not do the same for Jews, who are far, far, far more similar to Christians in their theology. For that matter Islam is more similar to Christianity in a theological sense as well, so the only way to include Mormonism as 'Christian' is to make the latter a vast, meaningless tent.

5 posted on 03/16/2010 10:58:01 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/lydiablievernicht)
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To: Vindibudd

vindibudd,
You perfectly demonstrate the anti-Mormon who uses false arguments against the Church. We don’t believe the Book of Mormon OVERRULES the Bible at all. They compliment and support each other.


6 posted on 03/16/2010 11:00:55 AM PDT by ensignbay (**UNBELIEVABLE OBAMA GAFFES video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4-AKcH3eC8 ***)
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To: Paragon Defender

“Are Anti-Mormons Christians?”

Are Christians to support cults?


7 posted on 03/16/2010 11:02:17 AM PDT by Grunthor (Everyone hates the U.S. at least until they need liberated.)
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To: Liberty1970

Liberty1970, your basic argument boils down to: Mormons don’t believe exactly as you do, so you, as the arbiter of the term Christian, refuse them that designation.

It’s funny because it IS true that Mormons don’t play that game. We don’t say “You all don’t believe in Christ the way we do so YOU aren’t Christian.”


8 posted on 03/16/2010 11:03:07 AM PDT by ensignbay (**UNBELIEVABLE OBAMA GAFFES video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4-AKcH3eC8 ***)
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To: Liberty1970

“Sorry, but words have meaning”

Not if you are Mormon.


9 posted on 03/16/2010 11:03:24 AM PDT by Grunthor (Everyone hates the U.S. at least until they need liberated.)
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To: Liberty1970

“the only way to include Mormonism as ‘Christian’ is to make the latter a vast, meaningless tent.”

I think you might have just stumbled onto their nefarious plan..


10 posted on 03/16/2010 11:04:51 AM PDT by Grunthor (Everyone hates the U.S. at least until they need liberated.)
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To: ensignbay

“You perfectly demonstrate the anti-Mormon who uses false arguments against the Church. We don’t believe the Book of Mormon OVERRULES the Bible at all. They compliment and support each other.”

So does Sceintology, Islam & Judaism. Doesn’t mean they are Christians right?


11 posted on 03/16/2010 11:05:12 AM PDT by chichipow
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To: chichipow

Your response makes no sense.


12 posted on 03/16/2010 11:06:48 AM PDT by ensignbay (**UNBELIEVABLE OBAMA GAFFES video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4-AKcH3eC8 ***)
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To: Grunthor

Grunthor, define “cult”.


13 posted on 03/16/2010 11:07:28 AM PDT by ensignbay (**UNBELIEVABLE OBAMA GAFFES video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4-AKcH3eC8 ***)
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To: Paragon Defender

Clever. Ridiculous ... but clever.

Christianity is not defined by an opinion about another faith ... but is defined by the central belief that Christ is the Resurrected Son of God, and the only available path to Salvation. To the extent that an “anti-Mormon” believes that, he is a Christian.

Before fellow Christians jump on me ... the above was an intentionally simplified characterization of the Christian faith.

SnakeDoc


14 posted on 03/16/2010 11:08:38 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions." -- Robin Hood (Russell Crowe))
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To: ensignbay

When you get down to it, Mormons don’t even believe in the Book of Mormon. They believe in Doctrine and Covenants. The Book of Mormon contradicts much of Mormonism’s theology.


15 posted on 03/16/2010 11:09:14 AM PDT by Hootowl
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To: Liberty1970

By the way Liberty1970, your argument about Jews may as well be called Christians is ridiculous. They don’t call themselves Christians because they don’t believe in Him as God and Savior of the world. Isn’t that a basic and clear definition of a “Christian”?


16 posted on 03/16/2010 11:09:36 AM PDT by ensignbay (**UNBELIEVABLE OBAMA GAFFES video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4-AKcH3eC8 ***)
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To: Paragon Defender
Are all anti-Christians mormon?

Are all anti-mormons Christian?

17 posted on 03/16/2010 11:09:54 AM PDT by DungeonMaster (A Christian Democrat is better than a heathen Republican)
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To: ensignbay

Sorry, but

1. Believing there are multiple gods.

2. Believing that God was once a man.

3. Believing that you can become God.

does not complement the Bible. These beliefs are blasphemous.


18 posted on 03/16/2010 11:10:48 AM PDT by stinkerpot65 (Global warming is a Marxist lie.)
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To: Hootowl

Hootowl, what are even talking about? Either you’re joking or completely uninformed. As a Mormon, I’m always amused/annoyed to learn about what Mormons supposedly believe and what its supposedly really about from those who aren’t Mormon and don’t much care for the Church.


19 posted on 03/16/2010 11:13:29 AM PDT by ensignbay (**UNBELIEVABLE OBAMA GAFFES video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4-AKcH3eC8 ***)
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To: stinkerpot65

stinkerpot65, again, your saying that Mormons are not Christian boils down to this “we don’t believe exactly how you believe, so we are called non-Christian.” That’s arbitrarily exclusionary. And who made you the arbiter of Christianity.

Wouldn’t you agree that someone who believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Redeemer of mankind through his Atonement, maybe someone that is, say, Christian?

And hey, YOU don’t believe as Mormons believe, so YOU’RE not Christian. You all sound petty and unChrist-like.


20 posted on 03/16/2010 11:17:04 AM PDT by ensignbay (**UNBELIEVABLE OBAMA GAFFES video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4-AKcH3eC8 ***)
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To: ensignbay; Liberty1970; Colofornian

“You all don’t believe in Christ the way we do so YOU aren’t Christian.”;

- - - - - —
Hogwash. The whole premis of the LDS church is the need for a ‘restoration’ because of a “Universal apostasy”. I can cite several sources and give you years of experience where the LDS say ‘well WE are the only “TRUE” Christians, and the Gentiles are apostates’, starting with the First Vision.

Did you take out your endowments prior to the 1990 changes, when the minister was still a hireling of Satan.

Doctrine determines if a group/person is a Christian or not. The LDS want to be considered Christian, their history and doctrine is up for the same scrutiny as any other group would be.


21 posted on 03/16/2010 11:18:40 AM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: Paragon Defender

Oh brother. This whole article stems from a false premise, that doctrine does not matter in determiniation of what is Christian.

Right doctrine will lead to Good works, but good works will not lead to right doctrine. That is where the LDS go off the rails.

Christians are called to defend the faith from those who seek to be equal to us yet deny our faith. Defense of Christian doctrine is NOT hatred or anti-Christian behavior.

The LDS not only want to be able to control who are Christians, but also who are Mormons yet cringe at any scrutiny. They want to claim to be Christians while teaching heresy.


22 posted on 03/16/2010 11:25:53 AM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ensignbay

Who defines what Mormons believe - Mormons do.

Who defines what Christians believe? Christians do.

Mormons have historically claimed that they are not Christians. In fact, their scripture imortalizes it.

The account currently found in the Pearl of Great Price was written in 1838. In this record young Joseph asked Deity “which of all the sects was right.” The Son of God answered that “they were all wrong; … that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ’they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.’ ” (JS—H 1:18–19.)

In an 1842 account known as the Wentworth letter, the Prophet wrote, “Two glorious personages … told me that all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines, and that none of them was acknowledged of God as his church and kingdom.” (Backman, First Vision, page 169.)

Why the change now? Is it so more people can be duped into the false Christianity? So that people will be kept ignorant that Mormonism is in fact a different gospel than Christianity?


23 posted on 03/16/2010 11:26:11 AM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: ensignbay
You obviously are either ignorant of the words of your “prophet” or willfully ignoring them.

Your ‘prophet plainly said that all creeds were an abomination, hardly words that convey the “Kymbaya” feeling the PR Department in SLC wants to portray now that they have discovered over the past couple of decades how sound a brand name ‘Christian” really is globally.

24 posted on 03/16/2010 11:27:18 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: Paragon Defender

Nice try.


25 posted on 03/16/2010 11:27:40 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: ensignbay; Hootowl

When you get down to it, Mormons don’t even believe in the Book of Mormon. They believe in Doctrine and Covenants. The Book of Mormon contradicts much of Mormonism’s theology. [hootowl]

Hootowl, what are even talking about? Either you’re joking or completely uninformed. [EB]

- - - - - - - -
Hoot is completely correct. The BoM is claimed to be the ‘fullness of the everlasting gospel’, yet many core LDS doctrines (exaltation, temple rituals, garments, etc) are found in the D&C, NOT the BoM.

The BoM also teaches the Trinity and praying to Christ.

And yes, I can provide sources. :)

I am always amazed at the LDS who think they can get buy with “we don’t believe that” in the information age when everything is available online.


26 posted on 03/16/2010 11:29:35 AM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ensignbay
...define cult...

http://www.lds.org

27 posted on 03/16/2010 11:29:57 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: SnakeDoctor
That is reasonable.
28 posted on 03/16/2010 11:31:12 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: ensignbay; stinkerpot65

Who made the LDS arbiters of Christianity.

When you say “Wouldn’t you agree that someone who believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Redeemer of mankind through his Atonement, “ do you mean the same things as when a Christian says it? NO.

Words mean things and the LDS have different views on “son of God”, “redeemer”, “salvation” and “atonement”.


29 posted on 03/16/2010 11:31:15 AM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: ensignbay

You stated “They compliment and support each other” refering to the book of mormon & the Bible.

So does Scientology, the Koran, the Talmud, etc... yet they each have their own way of looking at Jesus & their own prophets. Why is it so important that Mormons be called Christians now, when they were so against the ‘apostates’ to begin with? Just because the BOM supports the Bible, doesn’t mean that the Bible supports the BOM.


30 posted on 03/16/2010 11:34:02 AM PDT by chichipow
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To: ensignbay

There are eight essential Fundamentals of Christianity

1. The Deity of Christ

2. The Trinity

3. Bodily Resurrection

4. Salvation by Grace

5. Sufficiency of Scripture

6. Universality of Sin

7. The Atonement

8. The Virgin Birth

Using these Biblical Fundamentals we can easily see withou bias how differing religious sects align with Christianity. Catholics, Protestants and most Non-Denominational Christian Churches will agree with these basic tenets of Christianity. Using this doctrinal comparison chart, we can identify non-Christian sects without any bigotry or bias.

How does Mormonism line up with these Fundamentals? Not at all with the exception of bodily resurrection where we see some overlap.


31 posted on 03/16/2010 11:39:45 AM PDT by colorcountry (A faith without truth is not true faith.)
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To: SnakeDoctor

Christianity is not defined by an opinion about another faith ... but is defined by the central belief that Christ is the Resurrected Son of God, and the only available path to Salvation. To the extent that an “anti-Mormon” believes that, he is a Christian.

Huh, well, that’s my core belief and I am LDS. Can I put my name in your quotes instead of “anti-Mormon”?


32 posted on 03/16/2010 11:41:58 AM PDT by filospinato (Yes on 8!)
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To: ensignbay

And hey, YOU don’t believe as Mormons believe, so YOU’RE not Christian.

- - - - - — -
Up until recently (at least the mid 1990’s), that HAS been the LDS attitude.


33 posted on 03/16/2010 11:42:31 AM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut
That is something I found ironic. After my exchange the past few days with another LDS poster who shall gladly remain nameless for his disgusting deeds, I went back and pulled out my hard copy of the BOM, the one I was once sent.

I re-read anew through several sections and it is clearly trinitiarian in aspect and approach, even more clearly that the Bible in some ways.

Of course as the LDS con was developed and the power of promising godhood as a sales tool became apparent, that all had to be kicked to the curb, which in this case means using the old tried and true Pee Wee Herman "No I didn't" methodology which is standard LDS SOP.

34 posted on 03/16/2010 11:43:19 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: reaganaut

“Defense of Christian doctrine is NOT hatred or anti-Christian behaviior.”

No, but hating sure is.

“The LDS not only want to be able to control who are Christians, but also who are Mormons yet cringe at any scrutiny. They want to claim to be Christians while teaching heresy.”

And, as I remember, there was a whole lot of killing that went on between Catholics and Protestants on that same question. After y’all get things COMPLETELY sorted out, let me know. In the mean time, I’ll lay down and take a nap since it’s going to take you a while.....


35 posted on 03/16/2010 11:44:01 AM PDT by Pecos
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To: ensignbay
Only is Christ was a liar.

The basic premise of Mormonism is that the Church Christ founded somehow needed a restoration. Unfortunately, this cannot be true, unless Christ is a liar.

“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Mat 5:14-15

So here Christ says His Church will be visible.

“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18

Here Christ says his Church will not be destroyed.

“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:12-13

“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15

Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH.

Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Mat 28:18-20

Again, here Jesus assures us that He is always with us, to the very end.

So Christ says His Church will not be destroyed or fall away from him, that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church to always teach the Truth, and He will always be with us. Yet Mormons believe the Church went into apostasy.

The only reason for a ‘restoration’ is that Christ lied.

So when, exactly, did the Church stop teaching the Truth and go into apostasy? Should be an easy question.

36 posted on 03/16/2010 11:45:49 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Andyman
I'm anti-Mormonism because I do not believe in the foundations of their faith. _______________________________________________________ So Then, are you anti-Catholic? How about anti-Church of Christ? How about anti-7th Day Adventist? We could go on and on. You must really be anti just about everything.

What I'm curious about is where do you draw the line? How many differences can you allow one church to have from yours to still be Christian?

37 posted on 03/16/2010 11:48:16 AM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: FatherofFive
Rest easy, their “christ” was just a man, brother of Satan, one of a panel of gods in committee whose atonement was in a garden not on the Cross.

The impostor and his “flock” claiming to be the real thing, there is your lie.

38 posted on 03/16/2010 11:51:43 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: FatherofFive

is = if. “Only if Christ was a liar.”


39 posted on 03/16/2010 11:52:29 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Pecos

Show me where disagreeing with LDS doctrine and quoting their own scriptures and leaders is ‘hate’. Just because I am trying to point out the errors and lies of MORMONISM does not mean I hate individual Mormons.

Have you paid attention lately? Most Protestant and Christians sorted that out LONG ago. And you show another fundamental mistake the LDS make, that Jesus has a ‘denomination’. He doesn’t. The ‘church’ is the Body of Believers regardless of what denomination they attend. They become a member of that body by grace through faith alone, not membership in a ‘church’. What matters is the specific doctrines concerning the Person, work and Nature of Jesus Christ, something the LDS DO NOT agree with Christians on but Protestants and Catholics do.

One last point, because we accept the idea of a reformation and not a ‘restoration’ Christians can agree, learn from and even examine closely Christian Church history and admit that mistakes were made.

But the LDS, being a ‘restoration’ group does not have that luxury. If they admit mistakes, then the LDS church as become ‘reformed’ rather than ‘restored’.


40 posted on 03/16/2010 11:53:28 AM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: chichipow

So does Sceintology, Islam & Judaism. Doesn’t mean they are Christians right? ___________________________________________________________

This is not a thread I would have started, but I fail to see some of the logic trying to be made here. Scientology, Islam & Judaism are not trying to extend themselves into the tent of Christianity. To them if we were to call any of them Christians they would be deeply offended.


41 posted on 03/16/2010 11:54:07 AM PDT by JAKraig (Surely my religion is at least as good as yours)
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To: reaganaut

Dang, you are just mean and nasty.


42 posted on 03/16/2010 11:55:00 AM PDT by 999replies (Thune/Rubio 2012)
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To: ejonesie22

That surprised me too, that the BoM contradicted LDS theology.


43 posted on 03/16/2010 11:55:16 AM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: reaganaut
What I find ironic in the argument “you are showing hatred” is that the inverse they want is to love their friends and neighbors down the road to eternal ruination....

Heaven help if their neighbor's house in on fire in the middle of the night. By that logic the decision would be “well they have a right to be warm if they choose” and “it would be hateful to judge if a burning house is the best way to keep cozy, best not interfere"...

44 posted on 03/16/2010 11:58:49 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: Paragon Defender
Love Mormons, great people, reliably conservative, etc.

But you do not get to write a new book, follow the new book just as much as the old book, but claim you are the exact same thing as before you wrote the new book.

What is wrong with being called “Mormon”? I would even go so far as to say “Mormon Christian”. But if someone described their organization as “Christian” and then later I found out it was Mormon, I would consider that a lie by omission.

45 posted on 03/16/2010 11:59:11 AM PDT by allmendream (Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
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To: filospinato; SnakeDoctor

Define the LDS view of ‘salvation’, and are other rites/works at ALL required to enter the presence of God according to the LDS?

Can exaltation be found outside the LDS church?

One of the problems in witnessing/talking to the LDS is they use Christian terms but have their own meanings for them, so they will say things that SOUND Christian but in reality bear no resemblance to Christian doctrine.


46 posted on 03/16/2010 12:00:24 PM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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To: 999replies; reaganaut
You watch Oprah a lot, don't you...
47 posted on 03/16/2010 12:00:33 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: reaganaut
That is because there is no “theology” just product.
48 posted on 03/16/2010 12:01:55 PM PDT by ejonesie22 (Palin bashers on freerepublic, like a fart in Church...)
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To: ejonesie22

;)


49 posted on 03/16/2010 12:02:43 PM PDT by Grunthor (Everyone hates the U.S. at least until they need liberated.)
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To: 999replies

But I am not wrong.


50 posted on 03/16/2010 12:02:59 PM PDT by reaganaut (ex-mormon, now Christian - "I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see")
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