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To: SnakeDoctor

After reading this article, the following question begs an answer ===> WHAT THEN IS MORAL ?

What is moral? It isn’t enough to say that evolution can make us moral, we have to ask what is good morality.

Why should we consider murder to be wrong at a foundational level. As Ruse notes lion’s are often multiple murders so Darwinism doesn’t help us decide. Is morality just about social cooperation? In Hobbes state of nature every man is against every man, or with Darwinian filial affections, every tribe is against every tribe in a state of nature.
But that doesn’t stop tribes fighting, whether they be football supporters, Africans or Caucasians. In a state of nature how do we determine what is moral? Darwinism could lead to family or tribal cooperation in exterminating a rival tribe, but not to good morality. Morality has to transcend human emotions to be at all real.

The second question coming to my mind is this -— what of truth? A commitment to tell the truth is good morality. But if our genes have evolved to lie to us, then how can we know anything moral with confidence, or trust that what our genes are telling us really is the good?

These are the first two things that come to mind initially but there will be more as I digest what he’s trying to say...


11 posted on 03/19/2010 1:24:46 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Honestly, I don’t think it takes a precise definition of “moral” to state outright that human beings are not naturally “moral” creatures ... and thus that the author is just wrong.

Take an issue of almost universal agreement on the (im)morality of the behavior — pedophilia and child abuse. There are millions upon millions of child victims of abuse and sexual exploitation the world over. New stories emerge virtually daily of these horrific and dispicable crimes. Dateline NBC put a decoy online for 72-hours and drew in 40 men willing to abuse a child.

If humanity were naturally moral ... this simply could not be.

SnakeDoc


14 posted on 03/19/2010 1:32:10 PM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions." -- Robin Hood (Russell Crowe))
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To: SeekAndFind

Buddhism is an atheist belief structure and yet it seems to be the one that actually walks the walk. It has a strict adherence to science and is no as the religion of compassion. It believes we’re in this struggle of existence together and to love each other as we love ourselves. I was once your mother so I love you as you were once my child mentality. There is no “me” and “you”: There is only “one”

They do not believe in ANY gods

Just putting that out there


21 posted on 03/19/2010 1:46:09 PM PDT by alllucky777
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To: SeekAndFind
Very good points! In his book “The Selfish Gene,” noted scientist and atheist Richard Dawkins admits, that humanity is in need of an ethical system to teach altruism because “we are born selfish and our biology makes it so.”

Well, professor Dawkins. . .we're waiting. . .where's the ethical system to teach us biological beings how to be altruistic? If indeed we are only biological. . .then survival of the fittest is all we have. However, if we are more than biological and posses an eternal soul. .then. . and only then is there a justification for morality which largely entails the postponing of immediate gratification for a GREATER fulfillment at a later time.

Postponing immediate gratification never makes natural sense and thus, biology alone will never be able to justify such behavior. But it is only when humans can defer the desires of now for a later and higher good, can a civil society emerge. Therefore, God, eternity, the soul and transcendent values are essential. In fact, it is the basis of America's founding documents.

26 posted on 03/19/2010 1:55:35 PM PDT by McBuff
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To: SeekAndFind
"All things are now permitted." So says Dostoyevsky. To live consistent with this worldview is unthinkable, but man did do so in the Rhineland in the '30's and early '40's. In a world without God to say what is right and what is wrong who will judge Hitler, Stalin, or Mao. The concept of moral obligation is unintelligible without God. If the atheists declares convention as its bedrock, we all know that conventions change with the wind. Soon they will come for you, because you did nothing. Without objective moral law there is no claim on any civil right, no condemnation of any civil right, nor war, nor peace, nor any crime conceived in the heart of man. Moreover there is no purpose to life if you are to be destroyed, body and soul. Why get out of bed?

Nietzsche said, correctly, "The end of Christianity means the advent of nihilism. This, the most gruesome of guests, is standing already at the door. Our whole European culture is moving for some time now, with a tortured tension tht is growing from decade to decade, as toward a catastrophe; restless, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end, that no longer reflects, that is afrai to reflect." Nietzsche was correct in his declaration of Europe, and I fear Sunday last, we turn that same corner. The extermination has already begun again. This time they began with exterminating words with political correction. Then they exterminate thought, declaring they read hate into an evangelical preacher doing his job. They exterminate the right to life. They exterminate the right to the liberty to make choices of how you spend your own money. Make no mistake, extermination is their goal and the "God is dead" declaration justifies any action they wish. Truely, Dosoyevsky was right when he said, "All Things are now permitted."

103 posted on 03/24/2010 8:24:58 AM PDT by Texas Songwriter
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