Posted on 03/23/2010 5:46:27 PM PDT by topher
It wasn't all Phillip's doing, and besides, how are you separating the church from the monarchy in that era? There was no separation of church and state. Pope Clement was right there, seated in Avignon.
Confessions obtained under thread of death and torture by Inquisitors, was used by Clement to suppress the order of the Templars in 1312.
Are you not familiar with Clement's papal bull Vox in Excelso, which actually suppressed the order, and Ad Providam, which seized and distributed the assets of the Knights Templar?
So they were all knights templar?
There is no doubt that the Pope did not come down firmly in defense of the Templars. However, recent discoveries in the Vatican records show that the Pope found the Templars innocent of the charges of heresy. The Templars were a celibate monastic order, sworn to voluntary poverty, but also dedicated to military prowess. There aren’t many Christians today with that kind of dedication.
Why should I not be surprised?!
I hear you. My dtr went to a state college. I didn’t know about good Catholic Colleges at that time or I would have sent her to one of those topher mentioned. I’m glad we have forums such as this one to learn what’s really going on...
And totally beholden to Philip for everything. He wasn't a free agent.
Information exonerating the Templars has been held in the Vatican archives, for 700 years. It wasn't lost, it was held in secrecy.
And, to what purpose? Secrecy seems to have been creating problems for the Vatican, regarding controversial matters within the hierarchy, for a very long time. It's certainly not a recent development.
Oh, there may have been a bit of quid pro quo. Phillip hated Clement’s predecessor. Clement, formerly Bertrand de Got, was friendly with that predecessor, Boniface. But, he wanted to be Pope.
Phillip killed Boniface and Clement became Pope. In Avignon. With Clement and Phillip working quite closely together. The pair was quite fond of branding people heretic for personal gain. Clement even began proceedings to have Boniface branded a heretic posthumously, at one point.
Pope Clement was very corrupt, wouldn’t you say?
I continue to admire the Templars, because they were founded by men who were willing to give up worldly wealth and pleasure in order to serve Christ and his disciples.
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That, they were.
My number two son is a graduate of Notre Dame....that having been said, he is a staunch conservative because of my influence....I was able to counter every ultra liberal piece of nonsense that he got through th school.....He is a great Kid, makes a lot of moneey, and is VERY conservative....thank God!!!!!!!
There are leftists everywhere unfortunately.
Good for him, and good for you. Notre Dame was once a fine school. No doubt a degree from ND still carries some amount of cachet, so he’ll continue to benefit, despite what that once-august institution has become.
“they had money which he wanted.”
Sounds familiar.
My daughter attends the University of Dallas, an authentically Catholic university. There are a few out there, if you look around. She’s a junior and loves it there. Monday, she said her politics professor opened the class up to a discussion of the passage of the healthcare bill [the class is on Aristotle, so it was a major off topic discussion]. She attended Catholic schools all her life, but it’s truly at UD that she feels surrounded by like minded conservatives, professors and students. She felt that the off topic discussion of healthcare on Monday, validated her choice of UD for college.
UD is indeed quite authentically Catholic.
Bump!
The role of men in pro-abortion is believing they have a "right" to sex without responsibility for the women they copulate with, or for their children who result from having sex without responsibility.
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
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