Posted on 03/29/2010 7:48:52 AM PDT by Between the Lines
Amen & Amen
Christians are frequently invited to traditional seders, (some were at my home) and some Christian churches hold traditional seders where a rabbi is invited to explain the traditions. Anyone could hold a traditional seder if they wanted. The question here isn't the lack of traditional seders open to Chrisitians, it's that group of Christians who want to make the traditions of the seder mean something completely different.
” adding Christian symbolism to a 3,000-year-old Jewish ritual of remembrance.”
Every time a (knowing) Christian partakes of the Lord’s Supper, he is re-inacting a Seder 1986 years ago (more or less).
Whether the Christian knows it or not.
Altering the Seder is silly, though.
Christ didn’t say “do something similar to this” in rememberance of me. He said “do this in remembrance of me.”
I can't imagine any Jew upset that a Christian wanted to attend a seder or have their own. I welcome it, and know many other Jews that feel the same.
The issue comes in with the group of Messianics that is trying to make the traditions of the seder mean something else. We have been told every year for centuries what the matzoh means; I'm not happy to hear a Messianic group proclaiming that they know what Jewish traditions mean better than centuries of Jews do.
Jesus need not be involved. He wasn’t around yet.
I respectfully disagree. While the original Exodus was an amazing demonstration of God's power and love for His people in its own right, in the larger context, it was actually a foreshadowing of Christ, who would free not just the Jews but all people who believe from the bondage of sin and lead them into the Promised Land of eternal life. This was accomplished by Christ becoming the Lamb of God, sacrificed to take away the sins of the world. All of the elements of the Seder point to Christ, and I see no problem with Christians pointing out the symbology that pointed to Christ thousands of years before His birth.
I guess your Jesus is not G-d.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
The Jews are our beloved elder brethren, and the Seder is appropriate for us as well.
Anyone who can't see the seeds of the death and resurrection of Christ in the traditional seder elements doesn't know enough about Christian theology to really comment on it.
As with far more of the Jewish observances than most Jews (or Christians) even realize, the ancient observance is also preparation for the acceptance of the Messiah.
“Those intentions were noble at first and continue to be if they were inviting a rabbi or other knowledgable Jew to explain a Jewish practice, for example,” said Leighton, a Presbyterian minister.
“It becomes an altogether different phenomenon when the purpose is not to understand or appreciate our Jewish neighbors better, but to say ‘We really know what’s going on in the ritual or practice, and Jews would, too, if they only understood the symbolism is pointing to (Jesus).’”
******************************
We had a Messianic Jew come to our church to give a short series of talks about the Seder. And how the various rituals point not only back to their freedom under Moses, but also points forward to freedom in Jesus. I wonder how this pastor would have felt about a Messianic Jew doing a Seder?
I have done a couple of Seders (well, as a Christian - so I suppose we got many things wrong!) and they were very moving.
And how about a Muslim seder in the White House?
I can see how there would be strong feelings about this; and the only way to counter it would be --- it seems to me --- strengthening the traditional meaning and reinforcing it constantly within your own community.
It seems to me, though, that ALL of Christianity is a reformulation of, or a competing interpretation of, Judaism. It would be hard to find an element that isn't. I was certainly taught (and rightly, I think) to "interpret" the whole body of Hebrew Scriptures "in the light of Christ."
Moreover, much of Protestantism is, it seems to me, a latching onto Catholic things to make them "mean something else." Again, this is so pervasive that to catalogue it adequately would take hundreds of pages.
There's no stopping it, and no use taking offense. The only response is in constantly reinforcing your own defining lines, in higher contrast.
Quote: Why would any Jews be outraged by Christian seders?
Maybe it’ll embarrass my liberal Obama loving compatriots to actually finish the second half
And you wonder why Jews are weary/not-trusting of Christians....geez
http://www.outreachjudaism.org/biblical.html
Happy Pesach to all my JEWISH brothers and sisters!
Yasher Koach!
The issue comes in with the group of Messianics that is trying to make the traditions of the seder mean something else. We have been told every year for centuries what the matzoh means; I'm not happy to hear a Messianic group proclaiming that they know what Jewish traditions mean better than centuries of Jews do.
Our church does a Seder led by a Messianic group every year. Let me assure you that the Messianics are not changing the meaning of the Seder. What they do is give a short class before the Seder on how the passover meal points to Christ. After that they do the Seder exactly as the Jews do without anything added or any mention of Jesus what so ever. (All of these Seders may not follow this format, but the ones I have attended do.)
Christians and Messianics have always looked at the old testament, the Seder, the Jewish wedding ceremonies and other Jewish traditions in the context of how they all point to Christ. Being Christians it is impossible for us to see it any other way. We believe that the Jews are God's chosen people and if our faith is to have any legitimacy at all it must therefore be irrevocably tied to that of the Jews. And if Jesus is both man and God then everything must point to Him.
I don’t understand your post.
There are several parts to the seder i.e kadesh, orhatz, karpas ,yachatz, maggid etc.
most non-Orthodox Jews stop after the meal and skip the second half. I wondered if people and Christian seders do the whole thing.
anyway a ziesen pesach
BTW,fwiw my original comment was akin to the theme of Yonah
Many believe in the Word of G-dshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Where Yah'shua commanded us to re-celebrate YHvH's commanded Pesach.Luke 22:19 And when He had taken some breadThe YHvH commanded Pesach Seder which Yah'shua re-commanded
and given thanks,
He broke it and gave it to them, saying,
"This is My body which is given for you;
do this in remembrance of Me."
was rejected and condemned by the Council of Nicea.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.