Posted on 04/03/2010 9:50:37 AM PDT by betty boop
Review of Life After Death: The Evidence
by Stephen M. Barr
Life After Death: The Evidence
by Dinesh D’Souza
Regnery, 256 pages, $27.95
While much apologetic effort has been spent arguing for the existence of God, relatively little has been spent defending the reasonableness of belief in an afterlife and the resurrection of the body, despite the fact that these are among the hardest doctrines of biblical religion for many modern people to accept. D’Souza brings to the task his renowned forensic skills. (By all accounts, he has bested several of the top New Atheists in public debate.) He understands that persuasion is less a matter of proof and rigorous argument than of rendering ideas plausible and overcoming obstacles to belief.
One obstacle to belief in bodily resurrection is the difficulty of grasping that there could be places that are not located in the three-dimensional space we presently inhabit, or that there could be realms where our intuitions about time, space, and matter simply do not apply. D’Souza rightly points out that modern physics has broken the bounds of human imagination with ideas of other dimensions—and even other universes—and has required us to accept features of our own universe (at the subatomic level, for example.) that are entirely counterintuitive. He shows how blinkered, by contrast, is the thought of many who think themselves boldly modern, such as Bertrand Russell, who asserted that “all experience is likely to resemble the experience we know.” Another impediment to belief in life after death is our experience of the disorganization of thought as sleep approaches and the mental decline that often precedes death. While near-death experiences do not prove as much as D’Souza suggests in his interesting chapter on the subject, the discovery that many have a surge of intense and coherent experience near the very point of death does counteract to some extent the impression of death as mere dissolution.
D’Souza approaches his subject from many directions. In two chapters, he gives a very accessible account of recent thought on the mind-body problem and the reasons to reject materialism. In the chapter “Eternity and Cosmic Justice,” he bases an argument for an afterlife on our moral sense. Our recognition that this world is not what it objectively ought to be suggests not only that there is a cosmic purpose, but that this purpose is unfulfilled and unfulfillable within the confines of this world. Some of his philosophical arguments, however, are less happy. In particular, his use of Hume and Kant to undermine what he regards as the pretensions of science will provoke not only scientists, but all those who have a strongly “realist” epistemology. D’Souza can also be faulted for sometimes claiming to demonstrate what cannot be demonstrated. Nevertheless, even those who find loose ends in his arguments will be rewarded with many fresh perspectives on the only question that really is of ultimate importance.
I wrote it down in a ugm.. journal..
The images are still quite clear in my mind..
The journal and the images refresh quite well..
A vision seems to be, to me... very personal..
I certainly hope so.
So very true, dear brother 'pipe!
Well then go for it, MarkBsnr! :^)
My point about angels being "seemingly ... programmed to unfailingly execute God's will" neglected to include the important advectival modifer, "faithful"; as in the 2/3 of angels who did not rebel but chose to be faithful to God instead.
Do you find this in any way inconsistent with the doctrine of free will? In the end, it really does seem to boil down to a choice of master. Satan said, Non serviam. I will not serve God, thinking to become his own "master" thereby.
Is this the example you choose to follow? If so, Satan becomes your "master." You might think that "liberation" from God sets you "free to be you."
But that expectation does not work, even for Satan himself. That Non serviam transformed him from "Prince of Light" into a degraded, hideous, monstrously vengeful and blood-thiirsty beast who declares himself to be the implacable enemy of man. Yet the promise "kill God so you can be free" is what Satan whispers in your ear. Although he is the father of lies, you believe him. Thus, HE becomes your "master." And you will henceforth live in a lie....
I guess I'm not in a very good mood today. I shouldn't have been so rude to MarkBsnr.
It's good to see you!
See port #84, dear kosta. I neglected to ping you to it.
Well jeepers, we're so lucky to have you around, to set the record straight!
A fiction that has been perpetrated over millennia, and believed by billions of human beings, really ought to be stamped out.
Of course, to say this means that billions of human beings have been totally wrong about the way they see and actually experience their world. Just some more "witness testimony" that needs expunging, I guess.
But who made yours the signally "annointed vision" that shall finally establish the truth of reality, in light of the fact that human beings (in your judgment) have so miserably failed to do so down the ages? And it is only in the post-modern age that human beings are finally getting the hang of doing this "right?"
Do you want to expunge all of human experience and history on this basis, too, spunkets — or only that part of it that deals with God?
Sigh....
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Looks like a very interesting book, I hope to get it when the price gets cheap on Amazon. The thread is interesting too. Eternal life is pretty much a given in every monotheist religion and many that aren't. Bodily resurrection is a point of contention in my mind but I have no problem if people believe that; to me it's a fine point that is not so important*, just like the age of the universe and the earth.
The important points are that God created the universe and all within it (and all without as well), and that each soul is eternal. The hows and wherefores and what comes next are of course highly interesting and important. But....
Since materialists and atheists say "there is no creator" and "there is no eternal soul" and they want to and to a large degree do frame the discussion and create the public ground of understanding, therefore the materialist "ownership" of discussion needs to be addressed first. It is not the different views in different religions (leaving aside Islam as usual...) and denominations that are destroying the world, it is atheism and materialism that are destroying the world.
When the "there is no eternal life" is accepted as given, this hugely influences moral absolutes - because ultimately - Nothing Matters. And this is a damnable lie. From this lie come all manner of false and danergous philosophies that are the impetus to dangerous hedonism and destructive evil behaviors. Such as - create your own reality; if it feels good, do it; what's true for you is true for you and what's true for me is true for me; you have no right to impose your [false] moral beliefs on me so my immorality has to be the cultural standard, etc.)
On the other hand, if it is true - that each person is an eternal soul, it means that God exists, He has His will - His likes and dislikes - and if we follow His will, we have a bright future; and if we disregard or rebel against His will, a very dark future awaits.
* According to the Vedas of which I am a student, the atma or eternal self or soul is what is eternally existent, and is the source of the life and individual consciousness dwelling within the body of material elements, like a person wearing a suit of clothes. Whether a person who dies in a state of loving surrender to God has his material, earthly body transformed, or whether the soul is given a new eternal body is not an important detail.
What IF... what humans "are", ARE (some of the) Angels that rebelled getting a 2nd chance to UN-rebel.. Like the prodigal son metaphor on holy water.. you know born again.. or regenerated.. a 2nd chance.. Would be so loving God-like to qualify and re-qualify spiritual quality.. Classifying spiritual quality for some future tasks not yet enacted..
No telling what went on for eons before humans were invented and this planet was modified for their use(Genesis).. Maybe the Angels tended to this magnificent Universe.. and still do.. And humans are some of the angels spirits housed in a fleshly space suit.. for further processing.. What a plan that would be.. Every human born being an evil angel getting a 2nd chance.. Romantic too..
When you die, look for me at the end of the long tunnel with the bright light.
I'll be the guy who 'pants' you, and runs away laughing, while your pants are around your ankles and you have to meet God and all your relatives in your undies.
I see that Gnosticis, is alive and well. However, Christanity does not teach that there is a "2nd chance" for rebellious angels. There is no atonement for evil angels, just some evil men.
No, this life matters. We can make it a lot nicer than we have been.
And this is a damnable lie.
As opposed to "eternal" life? What proof do you have there is eternal life except dangerous and silly philosophies and mystical beliefs on top of anecdotal "evidence"?
From this lie come all manner of false and danergous philosophies that are the impetus to dangerous hedonism and destructive evil behaviors
Obviously you don't think religious wars have been dangerous or destructive...
On the other hand, if it is true - that each person is an eternal soul, it means that God exists, He has His will - His likes and dislikes
Why there be anything in this world that God dislikes if everything is according to his will?
There is a prayer for that too,dear sister
Heavenly Father, I awoke this morning in a bad mood, and I have been unable to shake it so far. Everything bothers me and everyone rubs me the wrong way. I just cannot seem to get my true bearings. Help me to think of your salvation, your countless gifts and overwhelming love for me. Let me relax and forget life's cares by placing myself wholly into your hands. Grant that this mood will soon pass and I will be able to bask in your love and communicate it to others.
Amen.
Go for what?
Do you find this in any way inconsistent with the doctrine of free will?
Yes. Othewise, the Scriptures would indicate that only some of the angels had free will and the rest did not
Is this the example you choose to follow? If so, Satan becomes your "master." You might think that "liberation" from God sets you "free to be you."
It is not the example, and satan is not my master. I have the ability to choose God based upon His Grace to me. I suppose that I could choose atheism or satanism. I could choose rebellion against the Church and set up my own, just as so many have. But that is not my choice and because of Him, I have the strength to continuously choose Him, and when I fall, have the strength to regain my feet and walk the Via of Christ. That Non serviam transformed him from "Prince of Light" into a degraded, hideous, monstrously vengeful and blood-thiirsty beast who declares himself to be the implacable enemy of man.
That's nice.
Yet the promise "kill God so you can be free" is what Satan whispers in your ear.
A lot of people whisper a lot of things. Some speak loudly and plainly.
Although he is the father of lies, you believe him.
Are you telling me what I believe? Even the Reformed have not directly accused me of believing satan's lies. I ask for an apology on that. I believe that I have demonstrated my beliefs and my faith most openly here. This is not called for in this discourse.
Thus, HE becomes your "master."
When you refer to HE, if you are referring to Christ, then you are correct. If you are referring to satan, then I ask for an apology for that as well.
And you will henceforth live in a lie....
Strike three. Please send me those apologies in as public a manner as you have accused me directly of believing satan and having him as my master.
That's not rudeness. That is direct accusation. And that is not supposed to be the course of action in the RF.
Just letting you know that everyone else is replying to you perfectly well, and since you cannot “hear” them, you certainly won’t be able to “hear” me.
Scripture is pretty clear that humans are not angels; they were created after the rest of Creation. It does not indicate any thing of kinship; it does say that angels are God's messengers to men and that we men shall judge them.
What a plan that would be.. Every human born being an evil angel getting a 2nd chance.. Romantic too..
Interesting speculation, too. I don't see it as having any Scriptural validity, though.
Then I humbly beg you to accept my apology. I did not intend to offend you. Forgive me if I did.
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