Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Unveiling the Mystery (Historical and Scientific Evidence for Shroud of Turin)
NC Register ^ | April 5, 2010 | TiM DRAKE

Posted on 04/05/2010 4:14:00 PM PDT by NYer

CNS photo/Paul Haring

A life-size reproduction of the Shroud of Turin is seen in a permanent exhibit at Regina Apostolorum University in Rome Jan. 21. At left are examples of Roman whips for scourging; at right is a crown of thorns. Although the Shroud of Turin has been studied from virtually every scientific angle, no one has been able to fully explain how the image was transferred to the linen cloth.

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — For some, the Shroud of Turin represents a mysterious relic. For others, it’s evidence for the Resurrection.

Whether you believe or not, everyone who views the image on the shroud has to ask himself the question: Who is the man of the shroud?

A new exhibit in Sacramento, Calif., is asking viewers that very question — and providing the historical and scientific evidence to help viewers come to their own conclusion.

On March 1, the exhibit “Who Is the Man of the Shroud?” opened to the public at the National Shrine Our Lady of Guadalupe here. The exhibit, which features the most recent life-size photograph of the shroud, is a replica of an exhibit that is also on display in Jerusalem and Rome.

The original exhibit opened at Notre Dame Pontifical Institute of Jerusalem in 2006. A second exhibit opened at Regina Apostolorum University in Rome.

Planning and preparations for the Sacramento permanent exhibit began more than 18 months ago. The concept was originally conceived by Legionary Father Hector Guerra, who wanted to display holographic images and a sculpture of the man of the shroud so that visitors could meditate on the Crucifixion.

The 14-foot-long Shroud of Turin bears the image of the front and back of a man who was scourged, wore a crown of thorns, and was crucified. It resides in the Cathedral of Saint John the Baptist in Turin, Italy.

The Our Lady of Guadalupe Shrine was selected for its accessibility and as a location where administration of the museum could take place. Legionaries of Christ staff both the shrine and the exhibit.

The exhibit’s inauguration, blessing and ribbon-cutting took place Feb. 27. Sacramento Bishop Jaime Soto blessed the exhibit, which is housed in a brick building behind Our Lady of Guadalupe parish.

Highlights of the exhibit include the photographic replica of the shroud, which was taken July 23, 2002; replicas of the nails; whip and crown of thorns used on the victim’s body; a sculpture of the Holy Sepulcher; holographic images of the shroud; a life-size bronze sculpture based on the man of the shroud by Italian sculptor Luigi Mattei, and 22 panels that feature information on the history and scientific studies performed on the shroud over the years.

The $100,000 exhibit was paid for with private donations. The Legionaries worked with shroud experts, such as Israeli botanist Avinoam Danin, photographer Barrie Schwortz and museum expert Martine Ferre to design the exhibit.

‘God Was There’

To say interest in the Shroud of Turin is high would be an understatement. While the actual cloth usually goes on display only every 25 years, Pope Benedict XVI directed that it be displayed this spring. It was last on display 10 years ago. More than 1.2 million people have already requested tickets to see the shroud during its public display April 10 - May 23.

Organizers expect that 2 million people will come to see the relic. Pope Benedict XVI himself will visit Turin on May 2.

In addition, the History Channel aired the documentary “The Real Face of Jesus” March 30. In it, Ray Downing of Studio Macbeth uses computer technology and works with the John Jackson Turin Shroud Center in Colorado to create a 3-D model from the image on the shroud.

Legionary Brother Andres Emmanuelli, in Sacramento, said that future exhibits are being considered in Mexico and possibly an African country.

In addition, Father Guerra is working to create a foundation that would gather all of the various experts on the shroud to work together.

Barrie Schwortz is one of the few individuals who have been able to study the actual shroud. Schwortz was the official documenting photographer of the 33-member international Shroud of Turin Research (Sturp) scientific team that investigated the shroud in October 1978. The Sturp team spent 120 consecutive hours examining multiple parts of the relic simultaneously with a battery of different scientific tests. Their work remains the most in-depth series of tests ever performed on the shroud.
It concluded that the “shroud image is that of a real human form of a scourged, crucified man” and is “not the product of an artist.” According to their summary, “no pigments, paints, dyes or stains have been found on the fibrils.”

According to Schwortz, the work of the Sturp team has dominated shroud science.

“The efforts of our team contributed directly to our knowledge of the shroud,” said Schwortz.

That investigation also led Schwortz, who is Jewish, to the conclusion that the shroud is indeed the burial cloth of Jesus Christ.

“That’s a Jewish man on that cloth. It’s an authentic Jewish burial cloth. I, a Jew, believe it’s an authentic relic of Jesus,” said Schwortz. “Because of the shroud, I was forced to confront my own beliefs and found out that God was there all along.”

Schwortz consulted with the Legionaries on the exhibit. He sees it as positive to have exhibits around the world.

“It’s good to have a shroud exhibit just footsteps away from where the actual events took place,” said Schwortz. “The shroud can cross boundaries that a church cannot.”

“The exhibit is designed with the purpose of bringing faith and science together,” said Father Lino Otero, pastor of Our Lady of Guadalupe parish. “It’s designed for the critic. Never does the exhibit say that this is Jesus. It’s up to the visitor to reach a conclusion.”

Since its opening, the exhibit has drawn thousands of visitors.

“The majority of visitors have come away fascinated and find the evidence very convincing,” said Father Otero. “While there are other shroud centers in the U.S., ours is the most thorough.”

Schwortz believes that the shroud has value not only for Christians, but to people of all faiths.
“The underlying value [of an exhibit] is that it makes you think about the shroud,” said Schwortz. “Anything that makes us think about God is a good thing, no matter what our conclusions might be.”


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Science
KEYWORDS: ca; catholic; christian; shroud; shroudofturin; turin

1 posted on 04/05/2010 4:14:01 PM PDT by NYer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: netmilsmom; thefrankbaum; markomalley; Tax-chick; GregB; saradippity; Berlin_Freeper; Litany; ...

Ping!


2 posted on 04/05/2010 4:14:30 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

bumpus ad summum


3 posted on 04/05/2010 4:17:30 PM PDT by Dajjal (Obama is an Ericksonian NLP hypnotist.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer

The 2 hour special on the shroud on the history channel was excellent....


4 posted on 04/05/2010 4:18:26 PM PDT by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goat granny

I saw it too. I agree!


5 posted on 04/05/2010 4:21:45 PM PDT by Bluebird Singing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: NYer
A life-size reproduction of the Shroud of Turin is seen in a permanent exhibit at ‘ St Elizabeth Ann Seton RC Church Keller Tx ‘ I see it every time I walk in the Narthex.
6 posted on 04/05/2010 4:23:13 PM PDT by Milly (An Aggie Grama .)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Good fit for the location..Another unexplainable image.


7 posted on 04/05/2010 4:31:12 PM PDT by TASMANIANRED (Liberals are educated above their level of intelligence.. Thanks Sr. Angelica)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: goat granny

The best yet! Did you see the expression on the man’s face when the final face was revealed? Amazing.


8 posted on 04/05/2010 4:31:30 PM PDT by NYer ("Where Peter is, there is the Church." - St. Ambrose of Milan)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: goat granny
The 2 hour special on the shroud on the history channel was excellent....

I agree, quite well done. One of the more interesting elements to me was the mapping of all the wounds. I tend to believe the shroud is authentic, primarily because it matches the gospels so well with regard to his wounds.

MM (in TX)

9 posted on 04/05/2010 4:34:09 PM PDT by MississippiMan (http://gogmagogblog.wordpress.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: goat granny

I saw this on the History Channel and watched closely at the methodology of the different scientists involved. As for me, I am convinced that The Shroud of Turin is the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. Glory to God.


10 posted on 04/05/2010 4:34:23 PM PDT by afnamvet (Patriots Rising)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Bluebird Singing; goat granny

I didn’t care much for that special. Lots of “fluff”, etc.....but it did one thing: supported the idea that the Shroud isn’t a fraud or fake. For that, it had value.


11 posted on 04/05/2010 4:34:32 PM PDT by RightOnline
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Two things are still puzzling to me:

(1) I read that the Face on the Shroud shows that the eyes were covered with Roman coins in order to keep them closed.
(2) And that the Face was wrapped with a separate cloth in order to keep the mouth closed.

One can study the Face closely and observe that the Lips pout slightly and that the beard is tucked on either side of the Face because of the pressure exerted by the cloth. Close-up photographs of the Face show the imprints of the Roman coins where the eyes are.
Apparently, the computer artist did not take this information into consideration. All in all, the program was absolutely fascinating.


12 posted on 04/05/2010 5:10:39 PM PDT by 353FMG (What else can Islam possibly contribute to America other than its destruction?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: NYer
For some, the Shroud of Turin represents a mysterious relic. For others, it’s evidence for the Resurrection.

Who is this author addressing? It must be unbelievers. Mysterious? What is mysterious about the Crucifix? And why try to make it so. It's was the most valuable gift ever given. It's the foundation of our faith - and there is no mystery in it.

A Christian does not need evidence of the Resurrection of Jesus! Like Thomas, wouldn't believe until he saw it w/his own eyes. 'Blessed are they that have not seen and yet believe'. Are Christians doubting Thomas'? They can't be - that would be doubting the very Word of God and the Crucifixion, the very basis of our Christianity.

Whether the Tourin is real or fake, does it make a difference in your faith? Would anyone stop believing that Jesus died so they may have eternal life w/The Father, if this was a fake? Is one's faith so weak, that it somehow hangs on needing something visible as 'proof'?

If one needs proof they cannot possibly have a personal relationship with The Father and that is the reason why He created us - for fellowship with HIM.
13 posted on 04/05/2010 5:23:02 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RightOnline

Yeah - with every commercial break, they had to come back to review everything countless times - probably would take 15 minutes instead of an hour without the repetitions. I didn’t care for that aspect.


14 posted on 04/05/2010 5:23:36 PM PDT by Bluebird Singing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Bluebird Singing; All

Oh, it was far more than that. Years of published, peer reviewed research that was totally ignored, etc.. However, those on that that show that know better are to blame....I’ll leave it at that.

Barrie Schwortz was great; he usually is. He has a terrific Web site called www.shroud.com. He has spent 14 years archiving valuable information. I highly recommend it.


15 posted on 04/05/2010 5:40:00 PM PDT by RightOnline
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Another good one on History channel was on Exodus, fact or myth....most informative...


16 posted on 04/05/2010 5:42:04 PM PDT by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Bluebird Singing; goat granny

I saw the program, as well. Most intriguing. When the artist produced the digital image of the head of Jesus, I wqas moved to tears.


17 posted on 04/05/2010 5:51:33 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Palin/Hunter 2012 -- Bolton their Secretary of State)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Bluebird Singing; goat granny

I saw the program, as well. Most intriguing. When the artist produced the digital image of the head of Jesus, I was moved to tears.


18 posted on 04/05/2010 5:56:42 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Palin/Hunter 2012 -- Bolton their Secretary of State)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Some things to ponder:
An actual crucified human body had to be used to make the shroud.
The image is a monochromatic pixel type with a DPI 4 times greater than a very good laser printer. Not only that, but it is a 2-D image with 3-D information.


19 posted on 04/05/2010 6:01:19 PM PDT by kik5150
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NYer
That History Channel show on the Shroud was amazing. A graphic artist reconstructed a 3D image of Jesus from the Shroud . Just incredible. At the end of the interview, he got choked up a couple of times at the thought of actually seeing the computer generated, 3D image of Jesus from the information on the Shroud. The theory was that the image of Jesus was transferred to the shroud in a flash of light when He was resurrected.
20 posted on 04/05/2010 6:03:50 PM PDT by FrdmLvr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name

The Lord chose to “prove” His identity to the Apostles by rising from the dead.
Their “faith” was based on an actual, physical encounter with Him. Our own faith comes from our acceptance of their testimony. Could not the Lord, in a like manner, have chosen to leave his this physical evidence to strength our faith, just as he did for Thomas? I still am not certain that the shroud covered Jesus, but the evidence is strong that it once was wrapped around a crucified man, and a Jewish man.


21 posted on 04/05/2010 8:54:25 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
I'm not discussing the Shroud. I have no reason to believe it is not real. But it neither strengthens nor decreases my faith in the Resurrection.

Could not the Lord, in a like manner, have chosen to leave his this physical evidence to strength our faith

No. It may help an unbeliever for a moment or two. Remember Jesus, after His Resurrection NEVER appeared to unbelievers. He could have went to all that crucified, mocked him and had them shaking in their boots and be inclined to believe. He didn't - he only appeared to believers.

The reason I say no is because of what faith is... Faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things NOT SEEN.

So how do you think that faith can be increased by something 'seen'? We have all the faith right now that we are going to get - some use it and it appears they have more, not so. It's the use of it, that increases faith. You don't need/use ANY FAITH to see something in the natural. If you don't use it, how can it increase?

So Jesus wouldn't do any act like that for the reason you suppose - to increase one's faith because he already told us what faith is.

Believers, who are Holy Spirit filled, don't use the power and authority given to them, to heal the sick (not pray for the sick), raise the dead, cast out demons. So much for their faith. If they can't believe for a headache, how will they believe for cancer if it strikes?

just as he did for Thomas

Where does it say Thomas' faith increased? That passage showed his unbelief not his increased faith. Remember the man who said You don't even have to come under my roof - just say the Word and my servant will be healed? And Jesus marveled at his faith. This man understood about authority. Here was a man who just met Jesus and he understood more about the power of 'authority', a word from authority, than Thomas did with his 3.5 years being with Jesus and seeing countless miracles along w/teachings.

Kinda of proves something - being in church for years, being w/the best of the best w/teachings does not mean that person is walking in faith. True Christianity IS a faith walk with a personal relationship with God (Authority)(unseen).
22 posted on 04/05/2010 9:43:06 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name

My point being is that our faith, really, is in the testimony of the Apostles and, as Paul points out, of the “500.” I don’t like this “spiritualizion”of the physical reality of the Resurrection. The heart of my faith is the dogma of the Incarnation. God became flesh. The Resurrection was proof of that. Even Paul made his way to Jerusalem to learns about the “facts” —the material facts—of the Resurrection. he did not, as the liberals and gnostics claim, preach about a spirit but about a man. In seeing Jesus the Apostles saw whatthey as Jews would have thought impossible, for men to see God without dying. It was impossible but it happened. That is the essence of the Gospel.


23 posted on 04/05/2010 9:54:17 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
The Lord chose to “prove” His identity to the Apostles by rising from the dead

He rose from the dead because HE was God! His plan all along and prophesied in the OT. He conquered sin, hell and the grave! God doesn't have to prove HIMSELF to anyone. It's up to us to believe HIS WORD. I don't believe it because 'man' says so.

When He returned He sent the Holy Spirit upon them.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of me:

And the HS inspired the writing of His Word.
24 posted on 04/05/2010 10:01:04 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name

God CHOSE to reveal Himself. He didn’t have to do anything, he owed us nothing. Quite the contrary. BUT HE DID IT anyway. Ask yourselve: what did he do and HOW do we know it? Without the testimony of the witnesses, we —as a generality— would not know.


25 posted on 04/05/2010 10:15:01 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
He revealed HIMSELF - yes and to say it was to prove Himself is not correct. If that was the case, He would have appeared to those that mocked/crucified HIM. He came to His own and so that the HS could come on them as He promised. Book of Acts. And now that they were Holy Spirit filled they had the power to go out and spread the Good News and perform the miracles like Jesus commanded them/us to do.

Without the testimony of the witnesses...would not know.

that's correct to some degree. But Paul wasn't a witness.

Paul wrote about 2/3 of the NT and never met Jesus. How much learning do you think Paul got after he was Spirit filled and went into the desert for over three years. The Holy Spirit was his Teacher. He mentions in The Word that he spoke in tongues more than any of them did. Thus, he got more revelation knowledge than the most.
26 posted on 04/05/2010 10:48:34 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name
Indeed, Paul was not a witness, which is why he went to the witnesses to affirm what had been personally revealed to him. The Holy Spirit is indeed a witness of a different sort, and as Paul tells us in Romans, we cannot hope to do what we must do to be saved without "Him" to strengthen our spines. But humanly speaking we owe our faith to our spiritual fathers, those who actually saw the Lord and have told us what he said--and most importantly--did.
27 posted on 04/05/2010 11:15:58 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS

Paul didn’t go to others to confirm what three+ years of HS teachings in the desert! You got it backwards. You seem to ignore what I said about Paul writing 2/3 of the NT and never met Jesus. That’s significant and shows how the Holy Spirit leads one into TRUTH.

We are told to TEST EVERYTHING. You don’t test what one man says with another man.

We test everything w/The Word and ask The Holy Spirit for revelation - He’s the Teacher.(biblical)

I’ll leave you with your understanding of relying on man, and I’ll continue with my Teacher the Holy Spirit.

To learn/understand about the supernatural, His Word, things of God, you don’t go to man but the (supernatural) Spirit of God. The apostles got the power to perform the works of Jesus when the HS came upon them. But, of course, they walked in faith.

The OT spoke, also, about Jesus in Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22 The Crucifixion, Micah 5 - the birth of Jesus. They weren’t witnesses but were speaking prophesy. Where did they get the prophesy? The Holy Spirit.


28 posted on 04/06/2010 12:24:53 AM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Bigg Red

Modern tecnology is mind boggling to this old lady...In 50 years I cannot even imagine where it will go...


29 posted on 04/06/2010 12:28:25 AM PDT by goat granny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name

It was Paul himself who tells us he went to Jerusalem to confirm that what he was saying was consistent with what “the Pilars” of the Church were saying. You leave no role for the Church. As for denying any reliance on “man.” I very much doubt that you have had no human tutors. Are you claiming that like Mohammed you were instructed individually in a cave?


30 posted on 04/06/2010 7:28:03 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
You leave no role for the Church.

Christ is the cornerstone of the church. How could anyone leave out the cornerstone - the church is built on the cornerstone. The church is the body of Christ - they are believers doing what they are commanded to do - spread the Good News, heal the sick and raise the dead. The church has been given The Word of God from whence we take our lead.

Yes I sought out a human teacher who always leads us back to The Word. There is nothing of 'him' in it and that's what keeps his teachings pure and no room for error since we TEST EVERYTHING with The Word and the Holy Spirits' guidance. And because of that my knowledge of The Word has soared and my faith has increased mightily. All built on the supernatural - where the Truth and Power are. Not on anything 'man' which invites deception.
31 posted on 04/06/2010 8:08:17 AM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name

You speak your teacher’s language;your interpretation of the Word is his, or like his. So how can you say that there is nothing of him in you? He is your spiritual father, as Paul was Timothy’s.


32 posted on 04/06/2010 8:23:02 AM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
You speak your teacher’s language;your interpretation of the Word is his, or like his

Where did you get that from? Why do you need to make up stuff? His calling is to teach, mine isn't. He has other giftings, also, and my giftings are different than his. Read about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. The Body of Christ needs to walk in their gifts to fulfill what God wants to do in His church, His Body. And we each have different gifts and callings.

I don't think you understand how the HS inspires, prompts and does HIS WORK - otherwise you couldn't make that statement and be honest.

I'm finished - you let man teach you and I'll continue with the HS being my teacher. Something you seem to can't handle and refute when I say it. As you can see, that's difference in us - and why we don't agree. I'm HS filled - and that's biblical.
33 posted on 04/06/2010 8:50:42 AM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name

If you are a human being, you will learn in a certain way and from a limited number of other human beings. You have parents, you have friends and other associates. You live in a certain time and place. You are the product of all this. we are all created equal, we are all created unique. There is no other you, though there was a possible another you yesterday and maybe one tomorrow. No man is an island, but a peninsula of the main. Our Lord Himself was not, did not choose to be this alien being but one of us, like us in all ways except sin.
The Holy Spirit serves to keep as this way, aims to remind us that we are indeed all brothers, but some of us area adopted sons of God. Like Him.


34 posted on 04/06/2010 1:11:22 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
If you are a human being, you will learn in a certain way and from a limited number of other human beings. You have parents, you have friends and other associates. You live in a certain time and place. You are the product of all this.

What have I learned from them all? If you are talking about the things of God which is on topic, you are WRONG! I'm not a product of this because I have a renewed mind! (biblical) You, however, are coming from a worldly view (product of environment). I keep telling you we are on two separate pages.

Our Lord Himself was not, did not choose to be this alien being but one of us, like us in all ways except sin.

Of course He walked among the masses - that was His mission. But HE was NOT a product of his surroundings nor was He was tainted by them. You can never attain anything near that with your (product of your environment) mindset.

The Holy Spirit serves to keep as this way, aims to remind us that we are indeed all brothers, but some of us area adopted sons of God. Like Him.

First of all, what you have said is straight from a worldly view. So you cannot speak of what the HS speaks, moreso, to me. We aren't all brothers - only those that follows Christ and His teachings in His Word are brothers.

Again, my mind is being renewed and I am not a product of my surroundings. That is a very worldly view - and that's where you are coming from.

Not too sure why you want or feel the need to keep harping on it.
35 posted on 04/06/2010 1:45:33 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name

Of course he was a product of his environment. He was born to a Jewish woman, was educated as a Jew, lived and died as a Jew. Ignorantly the Romans
gave him his true title: King of the Jews. He came unto his own, but his own knew him not. But to as many as did he gave the gift of everlasting life.


36 posted on 04/06/2010 1:53:50 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
Gee, I thought we were talking about the things of God - staying on topic - didn't know you wanted to change it into 'race'.

Jesus had me born into the family I was born into and that has NOTHING to do with my personal relationship with God. And that's why we were created. So race is truly off topic and nothing to do who I am in Christ!

How many more posts from you that only prove how different we are in our beliefs? Are you done grasping at straws or just feel needy?
37 posted on 04/06/2010 2:52:54 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name
The Jews were/are God's chosen race, and when you read Romans you see how Paul loved his people, whom he never denied, and hoped that in time they would accept Christ as Lord. And of course John --another Jew--wrote in his Revelation about how Jews had first place among the Saints. God is always faithful, but we are not.
38 posted on 04/06/2010 3:28:46 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS

Hey, are YOU trying to teach ME something! LOL! You are needy - like I said.

I am a Holy Spirit child of The Most High God and I am blessed and highly favored!

I’ll let you talk to yourself, I think it’s therapy for you.


39 posted on 04/06/2010 3:43:56 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name

Have a good day.


40 posted on 04/06/2010 3:47:35 PM PDT by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: presently no screen name
I said about Paul writing 2/3 of the NT and never met Jesus.

Paul met Jesus back when Paul was Saul. It was a pretty important meeting.

41 posted on 04/06/2010 4:20:05 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: xone

On the road to Damascus - it wasn’t a visual meeting - it was a supernatural encounter. We were discussing being a visual witness and being w/Jesus for over three years. Losing his eyesight was an ‘eye opener’ for him. ;)


42 posted on 04/06/2010 4:45:56 PM PDT by presently no screen name ( Repeal ZeroCare!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: goat granny

Modern tecnology is mind boggling to this old lady...

&&&
Ditto, granny.


43 posted on 04/07/2010 12:26:57 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Palin/Hunter 2012 -- Bolton their Secretary of State)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson