Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: kosta50
Obviously the society and individuals believed there was something "good," even essential about virginity.

Of course there are societal pressures. And our culture influences what we believe is "true" and "right".

But you know this now, so you can choose not to believe it, correct? Whatever the societal pressure, you could choose to go against it. Virginity, religion, whatever the society rewards you for, you can choose otherwise - now.

Whatever the prejudices of culture, whatever the appetites of biology, humans as conscious beings have the potential to over-ride them for another choice.

And, please, again, I'm not saying my goal is to starve, be celibate, poor, socially ostracized etc.

345 posted on 04/29/2010 10:09:36 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 322 | View Replies ]


To: D-fendr
However, now that you know that, you, conscious beings, humans, can overrule it, as you can choose not to eat when you're hungry, etc

Up to a point. Try holding your breath. If you are thirsty and hungry enough your ability to override the nature becomes progressively difficult. Eventually, nature prevails unless it is otherwise blocked by external factors.

But there can be a "rather than." X may choose to be fired, rather than...

But we do not choose to be fired unless we have some "feel good" reason for it to happen.

We do not have to, unlike other organisms, always choose what feels best to us.

Other organisms have to make choices they would normally never make. A deer running from wolves may decide to jump into a ravine rather than be caught. Under ordinary circumstances, a deer does not jump into a ravine.

A goal can also be the happiness or success of another, and we can sacrifice our own "feels good" for that goal

Because seeing someone else succeed gives us greater "feel good." Normally, most people will not wish to be passed over for a promotion, but there may be a situation where a coworker is struggling and needs the promotion more than you.

Under those circumstances, you may be happier if that person gets promoted and you don't, because you don't really need it or because you feel that you have not really deserved it.

Spouses and parents often choose to be the ones to perish so their loved ones may live, not because they enjoy dying but because the thought of their loved ones surviving is a greater "feel good" than if they perish and you survive. The reasons for that feeling may be numerous and vary form individual to individual.

You may say "I have lived a good life, let my children live." Or you may say "I am sick and unlikely to live much longer and my wife is healthy and younger than I. She will benefit form living more than I will."

Again the object of our sacrifice is a "feel good" and the vicarious satisfaction derived from seeing them saved or succeed is a greater feel good than if it were you. many of these values are cultural, religious, family-specific, etc. but they all have a common denominator; the desired outcome is the feeling of satisfaction, not disappointment, success, not failure, health, not sickness, prosperity and not poverty, gain and not loss. In other words, it is till a "feel good."

This seems an extremely limited view of "will." A very limited will that is a slave to reward? It seems not conscious at all.

We are very much conscious that what we freely desire is that which "feels good," that which in our mind will result in satisfaction, justice, success, prosperity, health, happiness, etc. These are all rewards seen in recognition of our act aimed at achieving these goals.

Will you do absolutely anything rather than go broke?

Depends. If going broke means losing your home, car, and your family living in poverty, some people may feel desperate enough to even do what they would never do to come up with income—steal, lie, rob, burglarize, cheat, you name it.  They may not like it, but they may feel it's "justified."  The sense of "justification" is a form of "feel good."

Part of my problem is defining "feels good". I don't conflate it, automatically, with feels right.

Both are subjective perceptions of "good," or "desirable," or "necessary," or "beneficial," or "just," etc.

I believe that doing what we believe is right can, sometimes, bring a world of hurt to us personally. It's then that we discover how much we really value a particular right. We can choose here something higher (of more value) than our personal pleasure.

We make that mistake all the time. Just because something subjectively feels right or good doesn't mean it is objectively right or good for us. People enjoy smoking. "I enjoy smoking" or "Everyone has a vice" is a common rationalization to continue doing something we know is hurting us.  Unfortunately, some will continue until it's too late to do something about it. Then they say "man's gotta die from something. I might as well enjoy it"

We constantly equate "feels good" with "is good." That's not always the case, but we follow the subjective (feels good) more than the objective (is good). We see this daily in our eating habits, living habits, drinking habits, driving habits, etc. the feels good trumps everything, sometimes for the good and sometimes for not so good.

Whatever the societal pressure, you could choose to go against it. Virginity, religion, whatever the society rewards you for, you can choose otherwise - now.

We can, but going against the grain doesn't feel so good. :)  Most people will go with the flow and avoid any social controversy. Some not only avoid making waves, they don't even like ripples.

Whatever the prejudices of culture, whatever the appetites of biology, humans as conscious beings have the potential to over-ride them for another choice.

But that potential is realized under two different circumstances: "feels good" is a free choice; "feels bad" is forced. The real world forces us to make choices we would normally not make if left to our own devices.

346 posted on 04/29/2010 12:38:49 PM PDT by kosta50 (The world is the way it is even if YOU don't understand it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 345 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson