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To: RnMomof7

NO! You DON”T GET IT! Thats So off! CLOUD OF WITNESSES OR MATYRS means THEY SEE from HEAVEN NOT FROM EARTH! INTERCESSION is PRAY. THE ELDERS AND ANGELS HAVE ANY TYPE OF PRAY BEFORE THE THE LORD. IF iTS all Symbolic What makes you the judge and jury to say it is not? OH I got it Your the POPE OF YOUR OWN CHURCH!


59 posted on 04/14/2010 11:55:54 AM PDT by johngrace
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To: johngrace

Your interpretation has men persevering because lots of folks are watching us.. is that why you persevere ..cause grandma might be disappointed if you fail?

Read the context.. it is not about others watching us ..it is about the example set for us to help us persevere.

There were no chapters in the epistles..it was a continuous letter.. so what precedes this?

Lets read it in context ok?

<< Hebrews 11 >>

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. 21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king’s commandment. 24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions. 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

{NOTICE THE 1ST WORD NOW}

1 WHEREFORE seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

That verse flows out of the teaching in chapter 11

So we have just read about those that have preceded us in faith and then Paul tells us that we are surrounded by them as a testimony on how to live out our faith and to persevere .

We need to read scripture in context..there is no context to your reading

Noun Strong’s Number: g3144 Greek: martus | martur
Witness (Noun and Verb):

(whence Eng., “martyr,” one who bears “witness” by his death) denotes “one who can or does aver what he has seen or heard or knows;” it is used
(a) of God, Rom 1:9; 2Cr 1:23; Phl 1:8; 1Th 2:5, 10 (2nd part);

(b) of Christ, Rev 1:5; 3:14;

(c) of those who “witness” for Christ by their death, Act 22:20; Rev 2:13; Rev 17:6;

(d) of the interpreters of God’s counsels, yet to “witness” in Jerusalem in the times of the Antichrist, Rev 11:3;

(e) in a forensic sense, Mat 18:16; 26:65; Mar 14:63; Act 6:13; 7:58; 2Cr 13:1; 1Ti 5:19; Hbr 10:28;

(f) in a historical sense, Luk 11:48; 24:48; Act 1:8, 22; 2:32; 3:15; 5:32; 10:39, 41; 13:31; 22:15; 26:16; 1Th 2:10 (1st part); 1Ti 6:12; 2Ti 2:2; Hbr 12:1, “(a cloud) of witnesses,” here of those mentioned in ch. 11, those whose lives and actions testified to the worth and effect of faith, and whose faith received “witness” in Scripture; 1Pe 5:1.


60 posted on 04/14/2010 1:58:48 PM PDT by RnMomof7
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