Posted on 04/20/2010 7:56:29 PM PDT by delacoert
You’ll not classify me. I do find it ironic how every religion thread devolves into scientific classification of every poster. Once you’ve got the egg in the crate their easier to smash, no?
So this looks like the end of the road. Thanks for the very little information about your church. I was hoping for more and better.
You’ll not classify me. I do find it ironic how every religion thread devolves into scientific classification of every poster. Once you’ve got the egg in the crate their easier to smash, no? So this looks like the end of the road. Thanks for the very little information about your church. I was hoping for more and better.I am not trying to 'classify' you, I ask YOU to identify YOUR sect, denomination or belief. Mormon's for example claim to be Christian but are not. You claim to be Christian, are you? If so how much of classical, orthodox Christian belief to you identify as what you believe and how much do you deny or are ignorant of?
As for information, had you bothered to follow the link I provided, every last question you have is answered there. Your faux outrage is amusing.
Narses has given you the correct answers, or pointed you where you can find them.
Baptism CAN be performed by an lay person with correct intent, matter and form. Normally that would only be done if there is some good reason to do so--otherwise, it would be done in church by a priest with sponsors.
Also, the Catholic Church keeps records of baptism, so it should be reported to the baptized person's parish church (possibly chosen after baptism) and entered into the records. And the priest might decide to do a conditional baptism in addition, to be sure that everything was valid.
Marriage is the other sacrament that can be performed by lay persons. In fact, the bride and groom administer the sacrament to each other with the ring and the words, and the priest is said to preside over the sacrament. Non-Catholics also can validly marry, but not sacramentally. Catholics normally should marry in church at Mass, presided over by a priest, and properly witnessed, but as with baptism can marry one another privately if there is a sufficient reason or emergency, and then have it confirmed or preferably performed again in church with a priest and witnesses. At least, that is my understanding.
Baptising a dead person makes about as much sense as putting a tire patch on your tire rim after the tire has shredded and blown-away.
Yep. My Dad is 86. I just found his Baptism cert from 86 years ago, and promptly tacked it to his wall. Same with the Confirmation cert.
True to type.
Really fascinating. Thanks.
As regards marriage, are non-Catholic marriages those not sacramentally married, should those also be remarried with a priest and witnesses?
I think that marriage can be pretty complicated, because it is both a civil and a religious institution, and because the Catholic Church would probably recognize the validity of most Protestant marriages, provided that the proper words were used and there was a real intention to marry.
In the words of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer, “With this ring, I thee wed, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” Sometimes additional language is added or interposed, and there are vows, (in sickness and in health, etc.), but I’d say that the essential elements are probably the ring (at least one, for the woman), the stated intention to wed on the part of both parties, and the invocation of the Trinity.
A valid previous marriage would be recognized, and any children would be considered legitimate, but a couple might want to have a second wedding for the benefits of the sacrament. That would be something to discuss with the priest.
So what distinguishes the sacrament part from the valid marriage part? A priest and the witnesses? Are the witnesses especially ordained to the task of witnessing marriages or are they just Catholic friends of the bride and or groom?
Witnesses are necessary because marriage is a public act, a civil matter, as well as religious. It’s somewhat similar to having a last will and testament notarized, so there is sufficient evidence that the person signed it freely and of his own will, in case any doubt arises.
Marriage, among other things, concerns such matters as legitimacy of the children and rights of inheritance, so it has legal consequences. In an emergency, I believe two people can marry without witnesses or a priest, but they would want to formalize it at the first opportunity.
This, at least, was the case in earlier times. If the persons died now without formalizing it, it would be difficult to prove when it came to questions of inheritance, etc. But in the eyes of God it could be valid.
Indeed. How about an honest answer, what denomination are you?
Thanks.
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