Skip to comments.Welcome the Stranger (Catholic theology & Church history against illegals)
Posted on 05/05/2010 7:03:51 PM PDT by markomalley
Greater pity that none of our shepherds (or their staffers) will read it.
....[Blessed] Augustine, for instance, wanted the barbarians kept out...
That says it all, doesn’t it?
Beautiful post indeed! Thank You.
The US has always needed/wanted the hard working Mexicans (no people work like them!) to do all the hard labor that Americans don’t want to do (and are not cutout for anymore.). Therefore,the policy of the US with regard to Mexicans has always been to scare them, so that they won’t come here, because if they knew that they could come hear, they would all come. This way they only get the ones that are intrepid enough to come, the young and the strong.
The anti- Mexicans immigration thing, it’s all a show to scare the Mexicans! Then every 10 years they give them amnesty and let them stay.
The problem is not with those that come, the problem is that once their children are raised here, they get together with the rotten apples here, learn, and become just like all the other criminals in the hood.
You ignore American history and it's people, and you evidently have not looked at Mexico.
A very powerful and persuasive article. The leftists inside and outside the Church try to brow-beat opponents of unchecked illegal immigration as racists and nativists. But supporters of a unified national culture have an ally the left didn’t count on: the late Pope John Paul II. As I wrote in a recent article at www.intellectualconservative.com:
Conservative and patriotic American Catholics need not feel ashamed of loving their country and wanting to protect and preserve her institutions and culture. This is neither racist nor nationalistic. It is entirely proper. In his book Memory and Identity, the late Holy Father Pope John Paul II referred to patriotism as “a love for everything to do with our native land: its history, its traditions, its language, and its natural features.” Concomitant with that love of country goes a desire to protect and preserve it as the Church Herself protects, preserves, and hands on the Deposit of Faith. Theologically speaking, he described a healthy patriotism as an example of fidelity to the Fourth Commandment of the Decalogue “which obliges us to honor our father and mother.” Clearly American Catholics can express their patriotism by opposing amnesty consistent with magisterial teaching.
You are so off the mark in your comments and so misinformed rather than insult you I will make one simple reply to point out to you just one of the many misnomers you iterated , pertaining to the U.S. need for Mexicans to fill jobs that Americans won’t do. When I left high school and was unsure of the direction I might take for my future my first job out of school was a landscaping job, and then I moved onto plumbers helper.
Believing it was my All American duty to service my country I entered the service to serve in Vietnam, and then planned on returning to becoming a Journeyman Plumber. Two unfortunate and ill timed accidents while in Vietnam rendered me unable to ever return to Plumbing and so instead I took up the study of law on the G.I. bill part of the governments promise for my service. The point here is that I most probably would have been just as content being a Plumber. Lord knows I would have been making fair money. My son who is now in the same boat I was upon leaving high school can no longer find work such as I did after graduation because his willingness is their but the jobs have all been stolen by illegal immigrants who no longer pick lettuce but instead leave that type of work up to the Indio’s who also come across from deeper in Mexico while they, the opportunists work for wages that were prevalent as far back as the 1960’s in the now Latino saturated jobs of construction. Even his high school sweet heart cannot get a summer job at McDonalds because illegals have stolen the youth jobs of the part time world. So sit down study your facts somewhat more before you accuse others of things I fear you are not educated enough to truly understand.
Yes, indeed. They are simply irrational on the subject of immigration. Mahoney is positively insane.
Mexico has to have the worst government of a potentially rich country in the world. They have to encourage migration,. or else the people would rise up and slaughter the few thousand families that own the wealth of the country.
Ouch. That's going to leave a mark on some.
That is true everywhere, once they get in the door, then only Mexicans will be tolerated, they will drive out whites and blacks, and then keep them out.
America should learn from Israel and built itself a wall! Best example of protecting a country’s border’s.
Be thankful LA is getting a new Archbishop soon.
Israel’s security wall.
Mahoney is a self-aggrandizing adoration seeker. Not insane, but evil. Flouting civil laws, flouting basic Church teachings — what else would you call that?
American history is history.
Americans today are spoiled, fat, cigarette smoking, unreliable, hungover at work, don’t work on Saturdays, and complainers all day, when it comes to hard labor at say $12 an hour. A Mexican will work without any of those drawbacks.
....they're so hard working and resourceful, that some manage to work 60-80 hour weeks without those drawbacks and dodge immgration laws at the same time!
If you study the actual practice (not what the politicians tell you) of controlling immigration from Mexico, it has always been just a lot of scare tactics on the Mexicans (as to the danger of getting swindled, robbed, raped, and murdered on the Mexican side, AND caught and deported in the US), and then almost like every 10 year amnesty is given to the ones that make it here. You will have to conclude as I did. It's a farce! They have no intention of stopping the Mexicans from coming here.That is THE POINT.
As an aside, I doubt that Mexicans have taken more than 2% of the good jobs, versus the 98% of the good jobs that were sent overseas. I don't see the popaganda minstry (the media) or the sheep that follow the propaganda slant, complaining about that. All that is left is low paying service jobs, like McDonald's and Walmart, not because of Mexicans, but because of government regulations that are not applied against overseas manufacturers (read unfair competition), that sent US manufacturers away, or put them out of business. Greedy trade unions that finally chased business away. and greedy aberrant capitalists with only loyalty for profit. In short, the “global economy” became more important than helping your neighborhood. Now there are Chinese living a tad better (getting 3 meals a day), while our neighborhood is full of welfare recipients and potential future criminals just trying to find a dignified job. THE JOBS ARE GONE to the world.
Interesting analogy—makes it really simple to understand the problem.
You clearly know nothing about the productivity of the American worker or the lack of quality of the Mexican worker.
As a Southern California contractor, I know something about both and I really regret the decline that Mexicans have brought to the trades over the last 40 years.
Americans built the greatest nation on earth through having a great work ethic, Mexicans created a dirty little hell hole of a country with a lousy work ethic.
Unfortunately their grubby, inferior standards have now polluted our nation and drag down the quality of every field that they enter.
Your ignorance is incredible, construction, machine shops, manufacturing, processing plants, city and county government, road work, Americans have been pushed out of all.
It is extremely difficult to find "good jobs" that Mexican immigration has not taken over, restaurants, drywalling, brick laying, concrete work, roofing, electrical, increasingly carpentry and plumbing, and the quality of those fields declined as the Mexicans took them over.
98% of the good jobs have gone overseas, that is a fact. The Mexicans can’t take anywhere near the jobs that have gone to the world. There are not enough Mexicans in the USA to do that.
Anti-American newby, show me your source for that claim.
Then tell me what that has to do with Americans losing tens of millions of great jobs as entire segments of American work are conquered by Mexican immigrants, who do inferior work.
Where I live, what you say is true, ansel. Very true.
Not only have these “good jobs” been taken over but you are also correct about the decline in quality. I have experienced that personally, in a work I had contracted to be done at my home.
You should see it intimately over a 40 year period.
How can these people look at the third world construction, unfinished buildings, dirt floors and glass topped walls of Mexico, and think that those people are the ones to replace the American craftsmen of the 1950s and 1960s and 1970s.
Now days I walk into million dollar homes with shabby workmanship, Mexicans don't care, they have never cared, that is why Mexico is the grubby, unfinished place it is.
re; Then tell me what that has to do with Americans losing tens of millions of great jobs as entire segments of American work are conquered by Mexican immigrants, who do inferior work
I've traveled on business throughout Latin America (I can speak Spanish ), I was an exporter of USA products, machine tools and industrial goods for 23 years. I've been all over the USA, my suppliers were all over, but mainly in the RUST BELT. They are all gone overseas or put out of business by overseas competition. THAT IS WHERE THE JOBS ARE GONE! You can see the empty factories all over, it's a ghostown. Maybe where you live there never was any major industries (Florida, Arizona, Mississippi Arkansas etc) that is why it looks to you like the Mexicans are the problem. The problem is that there are few jobs left, they've all gone overseas.
Now, let me add something, I speak Spanish, and I KNOW, I can tell you that that practically all the illegal Mexican that are coming here, are illiterate IN SPANISH. That is they can't read or write in Spanish! . Forget about the fact that they don't know English. Now, if a person looses his job to an illiterate Mexican who is also illiterate in English, what does that say about that person?
It doesn't say a thing about him. It DOES say something about the person doing the hiring.
It says that employer wants to locate his business in America to take advantage of the numerous benefits that entails, but does not want to pay for the minimum wage expectations of American workers.
Sure, I can grow a tomato cheaper in mexico....I just can't do it while paying the legally mandated overhead required in America.
When newspapers were caught by a market change and they could no longer get kids to deliver papers for what they had formerly been paying, they had to come up with another distribution plan...not import mexican kids!
There's no such thing as "a job Americans just won't do." There are only jobs Americans won't do for artificially depressed wages in industries where cheating has become "de rigueur."
You are incredibly ignorant of this topic, I see know reason for you to even try and offer an opinion, you know so little of it.
"Americans today are spoiled, fat, cigarette smoking, unreliable, hungover at work, dont work on Saturdays, and complainers all day, when it comes to hard labor at say $12 an hour. A Mexican will work without any of those drawbacks."
You are anti-American.
I put you in the category of troll newby, your disgusting anti-Americanism will probably see you run off before your choosing.
And Catholics wonder why Fundamentalist Protestants don't rise to their defense against the secular media!
Like I said: I've traveled on business throughout Latin America (I can speak Spanish ), I was an exporter of USA products, machine tools and industrial goods for 23 years. I've been all over the USA, my suppliers were all over the US, but mainly in the RUST BELT. They are all gone overseas or put out of business by overseas competition. THAT IS WHERE THE JOBS ARE GONE! You can see the empty factories all over, it's a ghostown.
Let me add:
I've PRODUCED out of thin air with my mind, jobs that supported 100's of people in the USA.
Let me add:
that as a traditional Catholic, we don't use birth control, neither do the other families in our congregation, families of blue collar workers with 6, 9, 11, 14, children, all working. I can bring forward one example, a family of 11, the father is a blue collar worker, the children are now pretty much grown up. They are engineers, priests, teachers, construction workers, certified mechanics. They could build a house for you when they were 15.
AND you sir call me ignorant? What are your credentials?
It doesn't say a thing about him. It DOES say something about the person doing the hiring. It says that employer wants to locate his business in America to take advantage of the numerous benefits that entails, but does not want to pay for the minimum wage expectations of American workers. When newspapers were caught by a market change... they had to come up with another distribution plan...not import Mexican kids!
That's a good response. BUT, that's not 100% or even 50%. So let me rephrase that: if an illiterate AMERICAN can take your job what does that say about your job?
It tells me that you've hung around too long in a job that anyone can fill, without progressing and improving yourself, without making yourself something indispensable. The indispensable construction workers became subs, the indispensable subs became contractors, the indispensable contractors became developers and commercial property owners.
I know an illiterate American (legal immigrant) who was not the brightest person, he had NOTHING going for him but brute strength. That person used/parlayed his quality of loyalty to the owner into a life long business. He put his children through college, owns his own home paid for, and rental units, he's up there in years now.
If you don't use the time that you have when you are young to improve yourself, when you are at the entry level jobs, that anyone can fill,WORKING FOR ANYTHING YOU CAN GET(CONSIDER IT A PAID EDUCATION!) you are going to have a rough time the rest of your life. You have to prepare yourself during the Spring and Summer of your life, or you are going to starve in the Winter.
There are two types of people working at McDonald's:
One is working and complaining about his low pay, and buying a six pack on the way home, and sitting around watching television or hanging around with his friends doing nothing.
The other is thinking to himself, these people at McDonald's are crazy, they're paying me and giving me a free education in the restaurant business. I'm going to learn everything there is about this business here, hands on, instead of paying a trade school.
Who do you think is going to succeed?
“Who is going to succeed” is not the issue here. Gaming “the market” is.
The simple fact is we have many business owners that love the market when supply and demand is in their favor, but think they are entitled to cheat when it tilts against them.
How many years did car dealerships try to get away with paying highly trained automotive technichians like they were the relatively unskilled “grease monkeys” of the previous generation?
I am not attributing this duplicity to you personally, but there are more than a few who talk just like you that will haughtily disdain the unpaid intern for quitting when the only task they’re given is a summer’s worth of scut-work that teaches them nothing after the first ten minutes.
Any fair minded individual knows the kid was getting hosed by someone misusing the practice of internship, but because the employer doesn’t have to justify himself to anyone but himself, he excuses his own deceitfulness by blaming the kid’s lack of work ethic.
Bottom line: The only excuse for hiring Mexicans is having your business located in Mexico. Anything else is an attempt to cheat the labor market.
It is illegal to hire illegals. The real and MUCH bigger problem are all the jobs that went overseas.There is no illegal or otherwise that can fill those jobs, they are gone.
Employers like that are fools, will only retain fools for employees, and will not last long in business. A young man should not work anywhere where he is not learning and improving every day.
You said, 98% of the good jobs have gone overseas, that is a fact.
Show your source for that figure troll. Your anti-American, pro illegal trolling is too obvious for you to be an effective troll.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Now, you are kidding yourself. There is no cosmic rule that declares a fool can't run a business that is at least self-sustaining.
There are many self-employed professionals that are self-employed precisely *because* of the prevelance of foolish employers! Even Rush Limbaugh was fired by eight different radio stations!
I can tell you from first hand experience, there is only so long a competent, professional "x" is going to tolerate being condescended to by an employer whose main business is selling cabbages.
I forgot this is the religion section, I was thinking immigration politics, sorry.
You have no justification for shifting the focus. Americans are complaining about being displaced by illegal workers, how about dealing with the issue of concern before moving to another?
I did not considered your complaints about your hard breaks qualifications. I was giving you a chance. You wrote "left high school and was unsure of the direction I might take for my future my first job out of school was a landscaping job, and then I moved onto plumbers ...entered the service to serve in Vietnam, ... planned on ..becoming a Journeyman Plumber. Two ..accidents while in Vietnam rendered me unable to ever return to Plumbing.. took up the study of law on the G.I. bill"
Did you succeed in completing your law studies? Are you a lawyer? It does not say.
re: Your anti-American, pro illegal trolling is too obvious for you to be an effective troll.
I'm not pro illegal immigrant hiring. Never said such a thing.
No problem complaining about the government doing nothing to stop illegal immigrants from breaking the law. What I’m telling you is that you are arranging chairs on the sinking Titanic. They took the industries away, and you are left fighting over the scraps. I DON”T SEE THEMEDIA TELLIN YOU THAT! YOU ARE BEING MANIPULATED! OPEN YOUR EYES! Take a drive up in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, New York and see all the closed factories. STOP BUYING MADE IN CHINA at Walmart!
I don’t want to call you ignorant of the facts again, and I know that you have been unable to support your hilarious claims so far, but since you are supposedly quoting me, would you at least substantiate those quotes, by linking me to them?
You clearly know nothing about the productivity of the American worker or the lack of quality of the Mexican worker. As a Southern California contractor, I know something about both and I really regret the decline that Mexicans have brought to the trades over the last 40 years. Americans built the greatest nation on earth through having a great work ethic, Mexicans created a dirty little hell hole of a country with a lousy work ethic. Unfortunately their grubby, inferior standards have now polluted our nation and drag down the quality of every fieldthat they enter.
So, you are a contractor. You are right, I missed this posting of yours completely. Now your vocabulary all makes sense.
To me, calling someone a Mexican, here in the USA, does not make him an automatic illegal. Are you talking about only illegal Mexicans in the quote above, or any and all legalized Mexicans?
Any other cultures in America that you feel the same about (that have dragged down the country)?