Skip to comments.If celibacy causes abuse ....
Posted on 05/08/2010 3:45:12 PM PDT by NYer
Because of the priestly abuse scandals we so often hear that the problem is priestly celibacy. That not having sex causes you to abuse children and teens. That it is unhealthy and unnatural for us not to have sex.
Well if they truly believed this then we need a whole new set of laws.
For example what about socially awkward and extremely shy men? Obviously their unwanted state of celibacy will cause them to abuse children. How about marriages that have grown to be sexless because of one spouse being tired of sex? They too will look for children to abuse by this reasoning. What about people not having sex before marriage and still have not found the person they want to marry?
So what we need are a new form of Temple Prostitutes. Yes government prostitutes and I am not talking about politicians. The government should monitor people’s sex life and determine when a person has been without sex for a specified period to be determined. The celibacy cycle must be monitored to prevent abuse.
Plus who knows when this sets in so maybe the government should force people to get married at a younger age or ensure that government appointed prostitutes make visits for preventive maintenance. By this logic we know that a period of celibacy can cause lifelong problems. We know this because priestly abusers often go on to more and more abuse. So they are no longer celibate yet they have steady sex via their abusive relationships. Those that abuse children often go on to abuse more and more children throughout their lifetime. So the celibacy causes abuse logic would dictate that it is not the psychological sickness of the individual, but the often short period they were actually celibate before abusing children and predominately teenage males. Funny how celibacy causes abuse that targets teenage males. I guess the lack of sex makes men all of sudden choose victims of a certain age and gender since it can’t possibly have anything to do with same sex attraction don’t you know. Just one of those odd quirks that come from being celibate for a period of time.
So you parents that believe celibacy causes abuse out there – make sure your male children either get married early and that they have a continuous sex life or that you buy them prostitutes until the government steps in to help. Plus keep ignoring the fact that most child abuse occurs within families and to a lesser extent public schools. Celibacy is the problem, facts be damned.
On a personal note, I work with 5 men. One is gay; I can’t attest to his sex life. The next oldest one ( approaching 50) is unmarried, has no girlfriend, is NOT gay, participates in a men’s baseball league, is into micro-brewing and lives a celibate life. He does not know how to ‘communicate’ with women but is comfortable with his lifestyle. The other 3 are young. One just got married, another is engaged to marry and the youngest just turned 15 and is playing the field.
Most of the abuse victims are young boys, so it seems that it isn't so much celibacy as homosexuality. We never hear this cause mentioned in the media for some reason. It's sort of the 800 lb gorilla in the room.
If celibacy causes abuse, then mullahs cause sheep fornication, and scantily clad women cause earthquakes.
It’s not that celebacy CAUSES abuse. It’s that the celebacy requirement causes men with normal sex lives to shy away from the priesthood, and that means there is a higher percentage of men with abnormal sex lives in the priesthood. It’s a selection issue, not a causal issue.
Legalize prostitution! Let the ugly and shy get laid too!
Bingo. If anyone mentions this "scandal", I just calmly start talking about how homosexuals like to prey on children. I don't get off that message until the topic changes.
It tends to change pretty quick. Liberals are uncomfortable with the truth.
“Normal sex lives,” for Christians, means that unmarried people are abstinent and married people are faithful.
A dedicated Trade Unionist was attending a convention in Las Vegas and, as you would expect, decided to check out the brothels nearby. When he got to the first one, he asked the Madam, "Is this a union house?" "No," she replied. "I'm sorry, it isn't." "Well, if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?" "The house gets 80% and the girls get 20%." Mightily offended at such unfair dealings, the man stomped off down the street in search of a more equitable, hopefully unionized shop. His search continued until finally he reached a brothel where the Madam responded, "Why, yes, sir, this IS a Union House." The man asked, "And if I pay you $100, what cut do the girls get?" "The girls get 80% and the house gets 20%." "That's more like it!" the union man said. So he handed the Madam $100, looked around the room and pointed to a stunningly attractive blonde. "I'd like her for the night." "Sorry, sir, no doubt you would," said the Madam, gesturing towards an 85-year old woman in the corner, "but Ethel here has seniority."
Is there a third option? Can I be a horny libertine during months that contain the letter "R" or maybe during leap years? There must be a loop hole somewhere...
I'm no particular fan of Jimmy Carter, but in 1976 he committed a great act of candor when during an interview he confessed to have "lusted in his heart" for other women. Most find ourselves falling somewhere along that continuum of sin.
In terms of “normal,” which means “according to the law,” there is no third option. Unmarried people are continent, married people have sex with each other.
A big part of the problem with out society is the belief that there a legitimate place for promiscuous fornication in a rightly ordered life. There isn’t. The choices are marriage or continence.
Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.
Rather than write a couple of paragraphs, I'll just repeat what Tax-chick said, short, simple and precisely true.
In terms of normal, which means according to the law, there is no third option. Unmarried people are continent, married people have sex with each other.
A big part of the problem with out society is the belief that there a legitimate place for promiscuous fornication in a rightly ordered life. There isnt. The choices are marriage or continence.
typo and all ... it should have been “our society”!
Lusting in the heart is one thing. Acting it out is entirely another.
And here’s an interesting truth about lusting in the heart, or thinking about any object of desire (or fear, or any thought which can lead to unhealthy or unwanted actions).
If thoughts are “entertained”, they’ll stick around, make house, and prod people to action.
Thoughts that are wrong can be shown the door, there are many ways to do this. “Entertaining” them leads to putting them into action.
I knew what you meant... read it as it should have been!
Sometimes I preview, and sometimes I don’t :-).
Of course, there’s a place for continence in marriage, too: when a spouse is sick or injured, when spouses are separate, when the spouses think having a child would be unwise. It’s funny that a society that so values restraint in the use of food, drink, and tobacco thinks that people can’t restrain themselves from sex, for a cause.
I’m not sure why billorites would extrapolate from President Carter’s mentioning the *sin* of lust to the proposition that sex outside marriage is just fine. (Admittedly, Carter went bats, but ...) Sin is sin. Whether an attitude is lust, or just (ahem) admiration for a gentleman’s intellect and style, is something the individual has to address personally.
It is entirely possible to live without sex, happily. Not for everyone, obviously, but many people can do it. Some people have less strong sex urges, and also time tames it as well. Some people are called to vocations which require celibacy, both in Catholicism and other religions.
To be fully human means to be able to control the urges of the body and mind when they urge one to act against moral principles.
Everyone has thought of stealing, or commiting violence (even just thinking about punching some one occasionally), lying, etc. But a moral person knows that such actions are morally wrong and rejects those thoughts. A civilized human society expects its members to use that self-control in sex as well. The fact that it is now a cultural standard that everyone must have sex as soon as they are physically able to and to try to stop this in oneself, or teach it to others, is wrong and impossible, is leading to the destruction of western civilization.
Why? Many reasons. One very easy to understand reason is that children do get conceived, and then they have to be killed, or raised by single mothers, with or without a succesion of “boyfriends”. The rate of illegitimacy is now (last figure I saw) about 40% in the US. In the UK it’s more than 50%. Then there are all the marriages detroyed because of infidelity.
What happens to these children from what used to be called broken homes? (The ones that manage to run the gauntlet and don’t get killed before birth.) THe rates of crime and misery are growing; it is proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that children raised without a stable home life with a mother and father married to each other suffer terribly. Huge numbers of broken lives result in broken civilization.
I will admit I’m partial to glancing at that photo of young Binyamin Netanyahu....
Just a glance of admiration! He’s also a great man, if he were an evil leftist I’d never want to look at him.
Handsome is as handsome does!
Yes, Bibi is on the verge of being an Occasion of Sin!
And now his hair is sparse and white, and I am not an attractive young lady any more either.
I’m a well-preserved middle-aged dame, but so is Mrs. Netanyahu. I hope they’re very happy!
Happy and safe.
The most probable pedophiles in order are:
Priests are way down on the list.
So if a father is a teacher of mid-high history, coaches the girls basketball team and is a youth minister at his church on weekends/Sundays watch out! He would be much more prone to pedophilia that any priest.
I think that is an unfair and inaccurate characterization of my remarks.
Wrestling with sexuality is a common and shared experience of human development. We do so within, or without, some framework of moral teaching. Carter acknowledged that. No more, no less.
I'm rereading my remarks in order to understand how they might be construed as condoning infidelity, sex outside of marriage, etc.
I will sit on Jimmy's side of the room, though, with the other sinners who had an impure thought once or twice...when I was young...or drinking...
I don't think the moral instruction I received as a youth regarding sex and sexuality in my mainstream Protestant church was very accurate, useful or constitutes a coherent code that I want to transmit to my kids. Maybe it's different now forty years later.
I'll ask the Bishop or his life-partner.
This is ultimate insanity!!! I can’t even imagine where this idea would come from. Child molesters/abusers can be found in all walks of life, in every “group” you can imagine to put people in... Celibacy does not cause abusive behavior. That’s the same type of attitude that requires Muslim women to dress in Burkas — as if men cannot control themselves to even see an ankle or a wrist! What is this world coming to???
[I know... Isaiah Chapter 5 — sweet for sour, light for dark... It breaks my heart even though we’ve been warned...]
Clearly I misunderstood your prior post. Sorry about that.
Yes... You’re adding in heterosexual abuse now. For some reason, that does not cause as much outrage in our society as homosexual abuse. I guess it’s possible that since we are theoretically not dealing with consensual sex, the fact that the abuser is a homosexual is considered an aggravating factor.
Very interesting graphic. What do you suppose changed that caused the increase, and then the decrease?
Exactly, especially since we don't hear about the problems that celibacy causes among the nuns.
Or is celibacy just a problem for men?
You nailed it. I think that homosexuality is the real problem.
I think that mandatory celibacy for the priesthood is unnecessary; there's no Scriptural basis for it and that the Catholic Church would do better with a married priesthood, but that's their call.
How many teachers are there in this country and how many priests are there?
We have one priest in our little community and far more teachers.
If there were equal numbers of each, you might have a point.
The real problem (or one way to look at it) is this:
If people are just hunks of meat, then the only real happiness in life is gratifying every desire and whim the senses demand. As much sex, food, etc as possible and any other enjoyments conjured up is the goal of life. “Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you die”.
The other view of life is that people are in truth eternal souls, wearing an earthly tent which is temporary, and that human life has a mission - to develop loving surrender to God - and that this is the real meaning and purpose to life. This is the real happiness the heart is aching and longing for. And that gratifiying every desire the sense come up with does NOT bring deep happiness, comfort or joy to the heart.
In every religion there are very similar if not almost exactly the same rules or guidelines about how to live in the world happily. Controlling our sex urge is universally instructed, as well as not giving in to drunkenness, gluttony, envy, avariciousness, etc. Controlling sex desire is part of what makes a human “human”.
It is not denying oneself happiness to control sex desire, it means being human as opposed to acting like a two legged animal. I know from bitter personal experience what it is like to be wildly promiscuous (when I was a teenager in the late 60s) and what it’s like to live a celibate life, and a faithful married life.
Promiscuity causes absolute misery and untold heartache and problems. Controlling sex desire is not always easy - especially for the young - but it is deeply satsifying in the long and short run. The more a person indulges in extra marital sex (of whatever kind), the more desires increase. It’s like pouring gasoline on a fire.
Someone may say or think - “I have these desires, I must act on them”! It’s like saying - “there’s a fire in the backyard, I must put it out by pouring some gasoline on it!”
And as Tax-chick said, even in marriage celibacy (or continence, I can’t remember how those terms differ in use) is often needed - during illness, difficult pregnancies, separation, etc.
If one is being very precise, “celibacy” means not being married, while “continence” means refraining from sexual activity.
Ah, thank you, my dear Tax-chick!
You’re welcome. That was an excellent post.
Thank you - I’ve decided to let fly. Let the chips fall where they may. So many on FR think it’s perfectly fine to act or advocate acting like a beast in rut. Harmless, normal, even admirable.
It is not the way to happiness for that person, the people they exploit (even if it’s mutual exploitation), the unwanted children produced, or the state of emptiness they create in their own heart and soul. It’s a direct path to suffering. The Bhagavad Gita says there are three gates leading to hell - Lust, Anger and Greed. They are always to be avoided by all sane humans.
I agree with you 100%. And it’s not as if you or I invented all this ... so there’s no reason to be defensive about stating most of the world’s (geographical and historical) understanding of virtue.
I too, would like to see a percentage comparison.
The orthodoxy of the Bishops — first
Second — the visitations and recommendations to seminaries
Third — the almost horrendous screening that goes on for entrance into the seminary, two day oral pschye examination, written opus about becoming a priest, interviews by several faculty members and the vocations director at the seminary. It all takes about six months. Can you imagine examinations like that for any other career/vocation in life?
1Cr 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
1Cr 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
1Cr 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.
1Cr 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of [her] age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.
The Priest may often be put together with teenage boys in situations that may be tempting to one who “burns” without the normal outlet for the “burning” of a beloved wife.
Abnormal desires can express themselves more readily when normal desires are unnaturally suppressed. As The Bible says let them that “burn” marry.
It is both ridiculous and insulting to compare the life of the priest with prison inmates. Thousands of priests were able to find women whom they subsequently married. One would have to have little or no knowledge of the ministerial life of a priest to make a comparison to prison inmates. Lets face the truth - homosexual life style by homosexuals.