Posted on 05/16/2010 11:17:43 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
Shavu`ot ping.
The author must have been watching a rerun of "The Ten Commandments" -- he clearly did not even glance at the Bible before making such an absurd statement.
Those who so often attack the Catholic Church for its traditions should question other traditions as well.
Although Exodus 12:37 refers to 600,000 adult Israelite men leaving Egypt with Moses, plus an unspecified but apparently large "mixed multitude" of non-Israelites; Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550.
If taken literally the total number involved, the 600,000 "fighting men" plus wives, children, the elderly, and the "mixed multitude," would have been two million or more, equivalent to more than half of the entire Egyptian population of around 3-6 million. The loss of such a huge proportion of the population would have caused havoc to the Egyptian economy, but no evidence of such effect has been found in the relevant time frame with the commonly held chronology. Archaeological research has found no evidence that the Sinai desert ever hosted, or could have hosted, millions of people, nor of a massive population increase in Canaan, estimated to have had a population of between 50,000 and 100,000 at the time. The logistics involved also present problems, with Eric Cline pointing out that 2.5 million people marching ten abreast would form a line 150 miles long, without accounting for livestock.
Hebrew University professor Abraham Malamat has proposed that the Bible often refers to 600 and its multiples, as well as 1,000 and its multiples, typologically in order to convey the idea of a large military unit. "The issue of Exodus 12:37 is an interpretive one. The Hebrew word eleph can be translated 'thousand,' but it is also rendered in the Bible as 'clans' and 'military units.' There are thought to have been 20,000 men in the entire Egyptian army at the height of Egypt's empire. And at the battle of Ai in Joshua 7, there was a severe military setback when 36 troops were killed." Therefore if one reads alaphim (plural of eleph) as military units, the number of Hebrew fighting men lay between 5,000 and 6,000. In theory, this would give a total Hebrew population of less than 20,000, something within the range of historical possibility.
Those who profess a belief in ancient, immemorial traditions should be open to the ancient, immemorial traditions that preceded their own.
only Judaism relates that this revelation took place in the presence of the entire nation rather than a single individual
The author must have been watching a rerun of "The Ten Commandments" -- he clearly did not even glance at the Bible before making such an absurd statement.
You have it exactly backwards. In the movie G-d spoke to Moses alone. In the Torah G-d spoke to the entire nation at once.
You obviously did not understand my comment. Try again.
What's to understand? You said that the author's position that G-d spoke to the entire nation was based on the movie rather than the Bible.
In the movie Moses went up to the mountain alone and heard G-d speak. According to the Torah this is not what happened. All Israel heard the voice of G-d.
I get the feeling NewJerseyJoe doesn’t realize that he got it backwards or a least is communicating his comment backwards.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/torahnarratives/
The Torah’s Revelation Narratives
...G-d spoke these words in a loud voice to your entire assembly from the mountain, out of the fire, cloud and mist…
When you heard the voice out of the darkness, with the mountain burning in flames, your tribal leaders and elders approached me.
You said, ‘It is true that G-d our lord has showed us His glory and greatness, and we have heard His voice out of the fire. Today we have seen that when G-d speaks to man, he can still survive. But now, why should we die? Why should this great fire consume us?
If we hear the voice of G-d our lord any more, we will die!’ (Deuteronomy 5: 19-22)...
Though non-Jews are forbidden from observing Jewish holidays in the way that Jews do (or from creating their own holidays), they are nevertheless to orient their lives around the Jewish calendar, and Shavu`ot is very apropos for them, as it was at Sinai that the Seven Noachide Laws were proclaimed in their final, eternal form.
Shavu`ot is also the most ignored of all the Jewish holidays. It has no external characteristic rituals as the others do (being instead a celebration of the source of all the mitzvot). Chanukkah, reinterpreted in a sort of ACLU fashion, has become the biggest holiday of the year while Shavu`ot is strenuously ignored.
Shavu`ot has two other strange characteristics: the event it celebrates is not explicitly connected to it in the Written Torah, and its maftir portion doesn't include a description of all the special offerings for the holiday (one is mentioned only in Leviticus 23).
There are only two kinds of religion in the world: the mythological and the historical. Of the latter, all but one were founded by people who claimed to have been authorized by G-d or to have (chas vechalilah!) been an avatar of G-d. Only one religion in all world history has a historical founding in which the invisible, unincarnated G-d spoke to an entire nation. Only one.
You can spin it all you want, but that says it all, my friends. That says it all.
Believing is one thing. But knowing--that's what it's about!
The author says that ONLY Judaism teaches that God revealed His commandments to the entire nation (not just to one man). Christianity teaches this same thing very clearly; it's in the book of Exodus.
The statement that "only Judaism" teaches this is absurd. As I said in my first comment. The author obviously has no "understanding" of what Christians believe or don't believe.
“Shavu`ot is also the most ignored of all the Jewish holidays”
As an Orthodox Jew, this is an extremely important “2 days” (one of the disadvantages of still living in the disapora :(
It is an extremely moving service. May HaShem prove to the entire world that there is ONLY ONE G-d, the G-d of Israel, as he did at Sinai.
Maybe this Jewish organization is not speaking to Xtians.
From the website:
In 1979, a group of Israeli scientists and educators joined forces to form Arachim, an organization dedicated to renewing authentic Jewish values.
NJJ, it’s not always about the Xtian. B’H
The author says that ONLY Judaism teaches that God revealed His commandments to the entire nation (not just to one man). Christianity teaches this same thing very clearly; it's in the book of Exodus.
The statement that "only Judaism" teaches this is absurd. As I said in my first comment. The author obviously has no "understanding" of what Christians believe or don't believe.
::Sigh::
Yes, but then chr*stianity claims that Judaism was superseded by another religion founded by a man claiming to be G-d (chas vechalilah!). This makes chr*stianity's basis no different from any other religion founded by a human being.
Judaism is the only religion in the history of the world founded by the Invisible G-d publicly, before an entire nation. Therefore its foundation is certain (unlike religions founded by individuals).
Take your pick. Since the Book of Deuteronomy is known to be a forgery created in the time of King Josiah, you might pick the former. Of course, since the Exodus itself never happened, you might prefer to pick the story in 3 Nephi (ch xi) where Jesus appears to a few million inhabitants of North America. Or not.
My take on all this: as the romans said, Mundus vuli decipi.
You are misreading. Exodus Chapter 20 shows Israel asking Moses to speak after they had experienced the terror of God’s voice. And then Moses begins to repeat other things that God intended the people to hear.
Did I forget to ping you to this?
Those, a good footnoted Torah, and good physics texts, and geology and math and cosmology....
Chag Shavu`ot sameach!
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