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Bishop Tobin: Get Ready The Mass is About to Change
Rhode Island Catholic ^ | 5/20/2010 | Bishop Thomas J. Tobin

Posted on 05/20/2010 10:42:52 AM PDT by markomalley

So, sometime next year you’re attending Sunday Mass as you always do, the priest takes his place in the sanctuary, makes the Sign of the Cross and says “The Lord be with you,” and you dutifully respond, “And also with you.” “Wrong,” the priest says, “The correct answer now is, ‘And with your spirit’.” That’s the scenario you’re likely to encounter in the not-too-distant future as some of the language of the Mass, language with which we’ve become very familiar, is about to change. The change is the result of a new translation of the Roman Missal, a translation that’s been studied and discussed for a number of years now, and is soon to be introduced into the English speaking world.

The reasons for the new translation are, in themselves, simple enough. The Mass is being translated anew to provide a more exalted, transcendent, “spiritual” language for our worship, and to make the English translation more consistent with the Latin original.

The translation process has been long and complicated, and it gets very technical, very quickly. The development of liturgical language is no small feat – it involves highly trained experts in Canon Law, scripture, liturgy and language. Eleven different episcopal conferences from the English speaking world on five continents have been consulted.

The process of translating the Mass and its final product have been the subject of a fierce debate within Church circles. The Catholic blogosphere has gone crazy over the topic, with competing articles, editorials, surveys and petitions. The folks personally involved in the discussion can get very emotional about matters such as the role of the Bishops Conference vs. the Holy See; the composition and competence of consultative groups such as ICEL (The International Commission on English in the Liturgy) and Vox Clara; about the relative merits of arcane documents such as Comme Le Prevoit and Liturgiam Authenticam. In short, the process of translating the liturgy makes the recent debate over healthcare reform in the United States look like a walk in the park!

There’s so much intramural stuff going on here, you might be tempted to throw your hands up in total frustration and ask, “Who cares . . . what’s the big deal . . . aren’t there more important things to deal with?” Good questions, all.

But as often happens in the Church today, the debate over liturgical translations reveals a broad division in ecclesial ranks pitting, in simple terms, conservatives against liberals. It seems to me though that it’s a mistake to read too much into the translation process, from either perspective. To those who think that the new translations represent the salvation of the Church and a great triumph for traditional values and orthodoxy; as well as to those who view the new translations as a giant step backward, a rebuke of the Vatican Council, and an abuse of hierarchical authority – to both camps I suggest, respectfully, “Get over it.” While the debate might be interesting to ecclesial wonks and relevant to a theology classroom, it really won’t help us solve the problem at hand.

Leaving aside all the inside-Church debate then, there are some important things to remember as we prepare for the implementation of the new language of the Mass in the Diocese of Providence.

The first is to acknowledge that the change in the prayers of the Mass will indeed present a significant challenge for priests and parishioners alike. We’ll need more recourse to liturgical books and printed materials for awhile; we’ll have to think before we speak. There will be mistakes and embarrassing episodes. The process will require a little perspective, a lot of patience, and maybe even a healthy dose of humor.

The second point is to assure you that the changes will be preceded by a thorough catechetical process, a teaching process that will involve the entire diocese. Useful materials are already being prepared and published nationwide, and in the diocese a core committee of priests has been formed and has begun the very first phases of the process. In the near future the committee will be expanded to include other representatives of our diocesan Church. The committee will work hard to guide us in our journey.

And finally, I’m convinced that the process of implementing and learning the new translations of the prayers will provide us with a truly blessed opportunity. I wonder – in the thirty-some years that we’ve been using the current translations of the Mass, doesn’t it seem that we’ve become a little too casual, a little careless about our liturgical prayer? When we attend Mass don’t we sometimes sleepwalk through it, respond like robots, and pray without ever having to think about what we’re saying? Of course there’s something comfortable and cozy about memorizing our prayers and taking them to heart, but the accompanying danger is an over-familiarity that leads to boredom and emptiness.

I suspect that in just a few years we’ll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about. My guess is that some of the new translations will be much better than the old; and that others will be awkward and truly “ineffable.” But if the process of learning new responses and prayers of the Mass helps us to think about what we’re saying; if it helps us to grow spiritually and appreciate the wonderful gift of the Eucharist; if it helps us even a little “to worship in spirit and in truth,” then the process will have been well worth the effort.

The way in which we receive and implement the new translation, and its impact on our diocesan Church, is now in our hands. Let’s do our best to set aside the drama and work on it together – prayerfully, peacefully and productively.


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: catholic; fish
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Of course, the easiest answer is to do the Ordinary in Latin, always.
1 posted on 05/20/2010 10:42:52 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

Only the holy spirit change hearts. Including the hearts of leaders who lead churches.


2 posted on 05/20/2010 10:44:56 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: sabe@q.com
Only the holy spirit change hearts. Including the hearts of leaders who lead churches.

Thank you for that fascinating and highly educational comment.

3 posted on 05/20/2010 10:46:56 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley
Why do they keep changing It?!?

Of course people who don't like all this change could just attend a Tridentine Mass. Beautiful Ceremony, no odd changes.

4 posted on 05/20/2010 10:49:17 AM PDT by Lobsterback
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To: markomalley

“The correct answer now is, ‘And with your spirit’.”

.Et cum Spiritu tuo. It was like that for centuries until Vatican II.


5 posted on 05/20/2010 10:50:59 AM PDT by 353FMG (ISLAM -- America's road to destruction.)
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To: Lobsterback
Why do they keep changing It?!?

Well, if they had done the translation right when it was initially translated, they wouldn't need to correct it now, would they?

Of course people who don't like all this change could just attend a Tridentine Mass. Beautiful Ceremony, no odd changes.

Works for me.

Of course, if they'd just get rid of that lousy Marty Haugen music, that, in of itself, would be a HUGE improvement.

6 posted on 05/20/2010 10:51:28 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley

You’re welcome!

Rote dictation in a religious ceremoniously setting does nothing engaging the holy spirit in changing a sole’s heart.


7 posted on 05/20/2010 10:51:38 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: sabe@q.com
Rote dictation in a religious ceremoniously setting does nothing engaging the holy spirit in changing a sole’s heart.

Did you ever think for just a minute that evangelization is not the purpose of the Divine Liturgy?

There is a role for solid preaching in the Church. There are some good preachers in the Church to deliver that work. (e.g., the famous Fr. Corapi)

But the Divine Liturgy is the communal worship of God. By believers. Within that liturgy, the Holy Spirit works on our hearts directly as we turn our minds toward God in adoration.

Just something to consider...

8 posted on 05/20/2010 10:56:10 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: theKid51

ping


9 posted on 05/20/2010 10:57:28 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Thank You God for Freeing the Navy Seals)
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To: markomalley
So, sometime next year you’re attending Sunday Mass as you always do, the priest takes his place in the sanctuary, makes the Sign of the Cross and says “The Lord be with you,” and you dutifully respond, “And also with you.” “Wrong,” the priest says, “The correct answer now is, ‘And with your spirit’.”
Deo gratias!
10 posted on 05/20/2010 10:58:02 AM PDT by eastsider
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To: markomalley

And why is it they just happen to set their watch so that their preaching lasts 15 min long so that the structure of the “Divine Liturgy” fits into the worship timeframe?


11 posted on 05/20/2010 11:00:09 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: markomalley

I just wish we could keep the traditional organ music and axe what I call the “guitar hero” celebrations. I don’t need cymbals, flutes and guitars. I love the pipe organ music, though.


12 posted on 05/20/2010 11:07:49 AM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: markomalley

13 posted on 05/20/2010 11:08:58 AM PDT by Eepsy (www.pioacademy.org)
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To: sabe@q.com

How about a cod? Or a haddock?


14 posted on 05/20/2010 11:09:46 AM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

LOL!


15 posted on 05/20/2010 11:11:33 AM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sabe@q.com

You’d have to know the purpose of Mass to understand.


16 posted on 05/20/2010 11:12:10 AM PDT by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: sabe@q.com
And why is it they just happen to set their watch so that their preaching lasts 15 min long so that the structure of the “Divine Liturgy” fits into the worship timeframe?

Well, I've heard good homilies that lasted 5 minutes and good homilies that last 12-13 minutes.

Usually, Masses are scheduled 1-1/2 hours apart from each other. If the homily goes too long, that couldn't happen.

Also, the purpose of the homily is:

65. The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended, for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners.

General Instruction of the Roman Missal

So the homily is supposed to be an explanation of the readings or about some other liturgical text used in the Mass for that day. It is NOT necessarily supposed to be a long exhortation. While the application to individual lives is necessarily part of it (therefore there is built in a call to conversion), the audience, remember, the purpose is to educate and exhort those who are already Catholics, not to evangelize those who are outside of the Church.

There are forums for that, but this isn't one of them.

The other point, in all candor, is that there are a WHOLE LOT FEWER Catholic priests who can belt out a good sermon than Protestant preachers. I've heard both, I know. And most of the ones I know have a hard enough time with 15 minutes...I'd hate to see them stumble all over themselves with a whole hour. There are priests who can do that. But not most.

That is not a reflection on the relative piety or sanctity of anybody...on either side, btw. I, honestly, wish we had a better forum for some good preaching (outside of Mass). Even street-corner preaching. But we don't. I think we are too comfortable and, in all honesty, need to undergo some chastisement from our Father in order to regain a lot of fire in our bellies and zeal for evangelizing like the early Catholics had.

17 posted on 05/20/2010 11:12:36 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Eepsy
Wow! You really are old!
18 posted on 05/20/2010 11:17:21 AM PDT by starlifter (Sapor Amo Pullus)
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To: markomalley

I don’t disagree with what you said.

I just think setting your watch so that when 15 mins are up then the sermon is over and one sitting in a pew week after week can just wake up but not live what was taught and practiced in daily living is missing.


19 posted on 05/20/2010 11:22:29 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: sabe@q.com

I think if you are setting your watch you aren’t really getting anything out of the mass.

Heck I could set my watch on the dot to an hour, and lo, and behold, the sermons are the same exact length every time.


20 posted on 05/20/2010 11:24:57 AM PDT by BenKenobi (I want to hear more about Sam! Samwise the stouthearted!)
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To: BenKenobi

It’s a miracle!!


21 posted on 05/20/2010 11:25:22 AM PDT by BenKenobi (I want to hear more about Sam! Samwise the stouthearted!)
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To: BenKenobi

exactly

pew sitters


22 posted on 05/20/2010 11:26:57 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: sabe@q.com
I just think setting your watch so that when 15 mins are up then the sermon is over and one sitting in a pew week after week can just wake up but not live what was taught and practiced in daily living is missing.

Also, remember, that the homily is not the high point of the Mass. In fact, for weekday Masses, as often as not a homily is not given.

23 posted on 05/20/2010 11:33:06 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley

Is this thread a Caucus thread?


24 posted on 05/20/2010 11:36:41 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: sabe@q.com
Is this thread a Caucus thread?

No, why?

(Having said that, I do appreciate your very polite and respectful attitude)

25 posted on 05/20/2010 11:39:07 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley

I don’t want an admonishment from the religion moderator.


26 posted on 05/20/2010 11:40:19 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: markomalley

I’ve been responding with the “correct” response for years, in English.

So my response to this is “THANK GOD, someone in Rome is listening.”


27 posted on 05/20/2010 11:40:36 AM PDT by HighlyOpinionated (SPEAK UP REPUBLICANS, WE CAN'T HEAR YOU YET! IMPEACH OBAMA!)
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To: markomalley

Knowing nothing about a Catholic worship service but spending tons of sundays in a Lutheran worship service my guess is homily=sermon?


28 posted on 05/20/2010 11:42:01 AM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: markomalley

“e.g., the famous Fr. Corapi”

I so love listening to his presentations whenever I get the chance.

This change I think is a step in the right direction if you can get something to reflect more acurately the original then what is to complain.


29 posted on 05/20/2010 11:46:56 AM PDT by battousai (The mainstream media; as honest as the French are clean.)
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To: sabe@q.com
Rote dictation in a religious ceremoniously setting does nothing engaging the holy spirit in changing a sole’s heart.

Thanks for your opinion. Uh, what IS "rote dictation" and "a religious ceremoniously"?

30 posted on 05/20/2010 12:24:05 PM PDT by don-o (My son, Ben - Marine Lance Corporal texted me at 0330 on 2/3/10: AMERICA!)
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To: trisham

Thanks. Glad someone got it (and thought it was funny, too).


31 posted on 05/20/2010 12:38:46 PM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: don-o; sitetest
Uh, what IS "rote dictation" and "a religious ceremoniously"?

It's how you cook fresh sole's heart. Kinda like BBQ shrimp.

32 posted on 05/20/2010 12:42:54 PM PDT by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death.)
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To: sitetest

And people say I don’t have a sense of humour. :)


33 posted on 05/20/2010 12:47:18 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sabe@q.com
Knowing nothing about a Catholic worship service but spending tons of sundays in a Lutheran worship service my guess is homily=sermon?

The last Lutheran service I went to was in 1977 in Germany (HS trip over there for a month). If we were in a Catholic area, the Lutherans got dragged to the Catholic Mass. If we were in a Lutheran area, the Catholics got dragged to a Lutheran service.

So the answer to your question is: I "think so" but it's been so long, I couldn't tell you. (Both of them are when the liturgical leader talks...just not sure all of the details involved with the Lutheran sermon)

34 posted on 05/20/2010 12:49:38 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: trisham

If you’re laughing at MY jokes, maybe you don’t. ;-)


35 posted on 05/20/2010 12:58:42 PM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

Heh. :)


36 posted on 05/20/2010 1:03:09 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: markomalley
Dear markomalley,

At least by Catholic definitions, a sermon and a homily are different things. But they are similar and analogous between the Mass and the services of various ecclesial communities. Here's something from a blog that quotes Homiletic and Pastoral Review:

•A homily explains a passage of scripture and gives practical applications. (”In this passage, Jesus is saying.... This applies to us today in such situations as....”)

•A sermon develops a point of doctrine or morals in a systematic way. (God is ______. Scripture describes this attribute in several places.... or The virtue of _____ can be fostered in a number of ways; firstly....)


sitetest

37 posted on 05/20/2010 1:04:13 PM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

A [missing] link for the above:

http://pestle.blogspot.com/2006/09/homily-vs-sermon.html


38 posted on 05/20/2010 1:04:52 PM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest

cool by me.


39 posted on 05/20/2010 1:05:50 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: Judith Anne

Okay. How do you cook the heart of a frozen sole?


40 posted on 05/20/2010 1:06:13 PM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest; Judith Anne; trisham

How about mackerel? Anybody got any mackerel around this place?


41 posted on 05/20/2010 1:07:24 PM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley
Dear markomalley,

I've never had mackerel. Truth be told, I don't really like seafood, although milder fishes (sole, cod, haddock) don't bother me much.

Is mackerel a mild fish?


sitetest

42 posted on 05/20/2010 1:25:47 PM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: markomalley; All

making christianity unattractive


43 posted on 05/20/2010 1:30:02 PM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
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To: sabe@q.com
making christianity unattractive

Is there a deep meaning here that I am missing?

44 posted on 05/20/2010 1:41:14 PM PDT by don-o (My son, Ben - Marine Lance Corporal texted me at 0330 on 2/3/10: AMERICA!)
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To: markomalley

LOL! No, but I have sardines and tuna. :)


45 posted on 05/20/2010 1:50:37 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

I like tuna fish all right. Albacore. With loads of mayo.


46 posted on 05/20/2010 1:51:20 PM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: sitetest; markomalley

It’s an oily fish, I believe. I don’t think I’ve ever had it.


47 posted on 05/20/2010 1:51:42 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sitetest

Me, too!


48 posted on 05/20/2010 1:52:24 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sabe@q.com

Fish makes Christianity unattractive?


49 posted on 05/20/2010 1:53:30 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham

I like it with finely-minced onions and chopped up pickles in the mix.


50 posted on 05/20/2010 2:02:37 PM PDT by sitetest ( If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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