I find no scriptures which directs us to engage speaking to angels. Our conversations are to be with God. Because satan is indeed able to transform himself into an "angel" of light and even satan acknowleges Christ.
Therefor How would we, who are mortal, discern they are an angel to begin with? What do they look like? Please use scripture rather than "feelings" to address this as feelings can and do deceive us.
In old testament times pagan religions were a dime a dozen and with them various entity sightings etc. by those practicing the rites of these religions. We know this can occur for people who have previous occult practices or exposed themselves to them in our day.
In the middle east and india also the orient.. it is a common thing to "see" entities etc. but of course as Christians we understand the religious practices they adhere to would give way to them. These are not angels as they profess that they are, and we also know God directly states not to go thru those who can conjure them up which is either by others who channel or they are themselves taught how to. With the internet many now give lessons as we know.
Additionally God said that as that day approaches there would be things heard and seen which would not be from Him...even though we might believe so....and we are to guard ourselves from these deceptions.
I just cannot see how people who love and know the fullness of Christ can possibly give attention to any entity form claiming whatever they do to an individual. Why would you even consider when we have Christ?
Mary and Joseph I guess should have ignored the angels that came to them, right? I’m not talking about SEEKING it out.
[NOTE/DISCLAIMER: Pinging this to a few folks who have requested that I ping them if I open up about more of my experience. I know I’ve not remembered all who have requested such. My apologies to those I have forgotten! I AM still working on writing it all out in ‘story form’ if you will - but some things in this post I am explaining I think are rather important to note. For others reading through this - take from this what you will. I’m obviously aware that in relating these things I am opening myself up to ridicule — I ask that any FReepers who feel the need to ridicule think twice as it will NOT do any good, or dissuade me from my beliefs. Indeed, what I WILL ‘listen’ to or contemplate are arguments that are FRIENDLY, or in the spirit of FRIENDSHIP and as my brothers and sisters in Christ. Ridicule is NOT WELCOME and will be ignored! As with every post on this forum keep in mind — YMMV!!!
QUIX: Please feel free to forward this to the ET list if you feel anything is of particular import, or to those you feel may be interested in this exchange. My copy is NOT up-to-date! (Sorry!)]
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REPLY to FReeper caww’s first post to me:
Since Quix already posted the Scriptures from the Gospel of John, I won’t repeat them in my message (have read through the thread after our exchange this morning now).
I will also direct you to Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians Chapter 6...
1 Corinthians 6:3 (copied from the NIV at BibleGateway.com)
3Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!
Granted, I realize that the most commonly accepted interpretation of this passage is that it is believers who will judge the fallen angels when Christ returns, but it DOES point to the fact that believers ARE able to discern whether or not an Angel CLAIMING to be OF GOD is truly OF GOD, or not.
Regarding your statement that “Our conversations are to be with God”. I couldn’t agree more. Like I mentioned, I’m not speaking of SEEKING the interaction, of SEEKING visions or “visitations” — blessed are those who believe WITHOUT ‘proof’!
Regarding your statement that “feelings can and do deceive us”. I definitely agree with that - up to a certain point. God created us with feelings for a reason though - PART of the reason is the ability to DISCERN truth. Our CONSCIENCE - or the ‘still, small voice of God within us’ - is also a part of the equation as far as feelings are concerned as well. I don’t think we should completely discount feelings we have through our interactions with others, or within situations we may find ourselves in — as you said we need to be CAREFUL, but we cannot discount those feelings completely. Indeed, especially feelings of something being ‘not quite right’, or feelings of danger should definitely NOT be discounted. I firmly believe that God gave us this ability to recognize when we are in danger in order to help us - a blessing of the Holy Spirit as you pointed out is within all believers.
I know from my own personal experiences that when I ignore these feelings or ‘intuitions’ of dread, or discomfort, or other such feelings I often end up in a worse position which is why I’ve learned to TRUST some of these feelings as ways in which God DOES communicate with us - through the Holy Spirit.
Guilt is another such feeling God gives to us - a way to determine when we have perhaps done something he does not approve of... Much in the same way as when I left the computer this morning to do my daily Bible reading that I was able to see that the way I acted towards you - saying that this discussion was not worth my time, and that I knew everything about you I needed to know - was WRONG! It was VERY wrong, and not at all in line with the way we are supposed to treat our fellow human beings, and especially the way we should treat our fellow believers in Christ.
You speak of how in the old testament times pagan religions there were instances of ‘entity sightings’, and that this can occur for people with previous occult practices in modern times. I’m here to tell you in regards to that - it is NOT just those who have ‘dabbled’ in the occult practices who have been shown visions, dreams, and have been ‘contacted’ in one way or another by the spiritual realm. I’m not sure how familiar you are personally with the concept of spiritual warfare - and indeed I am no expert - but, even the most ‘holy’ and pious of individuals can and will be tested by the forces of evil. To pretend that this doesn’t happen to those who truly believe in Christ I think is a very dangerous concept...
Indeed, Christ HIMSELF was tempted by Satan and his minions. The fact is that those who ARE the MOST devoted, and the MOST loyal to God and Jesus can be tested the MOST! What greater ‘victory’ could Satan claim than testing the most ‘righteous’ of believers and leading them astray and away from God? The Bible itself is rife with numerous examples of this being so in both the Old and New Testaments.
You mention religions of the Middle East, India, and the Orient and it being common to ‘see’ entities. I understand what you say and agree with you when it comes to SEEKING this type of interaction with the spirit world and that God commands us to NOT go through these people for ‘enlightenment’ into the ways of our Lord God Jesus Christ! HOWEVER, I will point out here the testimony of numerous converts from those religions TO Christianity that many times it WAS a ‘dream’, or a ‘vision’, or a ‘visitation’ that PROMPTED their beliefs in Christ our Savior, and gave them the strength to put away their old beliefs and come to know God, our Heavenly Father in truth. So, to say that all such visions or interactions are not of God - again I think that is very dangerous, and indeed could lead to people ‘missing’ very important truths they have been blessed to receive. Again we are (or I AM) NOT talking about CONJURATION or SPELLS - which we BOTH agree are NOT scriptural! I’m talking about a situation in which it is NOT SOUGHT OUT, but indeed ‘just happens’ - NOT through any Conjuration spells, or other things of that manner!
You point out that “God said that as that day approaches there would be things heard and seen which would not be from Him”. Why would God/Jesus point out that these things would be NOT from Him, if there weren’t things that WERE from Him in the first place? Why not just give us a clear and simple instruction to ignore all (as you seem to believe he has) because NONE are from HIM! In my understanding this implies that there are SOME signs and such FROM GOD, but not ALL will be — again we see that God, or indeed the Holy Spirit within us will be ABLE to discern the difference in some way... That we may be TEMPTED to believe they are from Him, but that SOME are not. He did not say ALL were not!
Indeed in the last days it will be more important than ever to LISTEN TO GOD, and to discern right from wrong, truth from falsehoods, scriptural teaching form non- or psuedo-scriptural teachings. If one believes that NOTHING we feel, or hear or see could be from HIM then how will we receive the understanding necessary to discern these things? Which is why I think that throwing out ALL feelings is dangerous.
You stated in closing of this post that:
“I just cannot see how people who love and know the fullness of Christ can possibly give attention to any entity form claiming whatever they do to an individual. Why would you even consider when we have Christ?”
I will speak from MY experience alone on this. You may do what you wish with it, and I can’t explain it all here and now - indeed some defies explanation. You state how can one give any attention to any entity form claiming whatever??? I am here to tell you that ignoring it is NOT AN OPTION!!! If you are TRULY in the presence of an Angel OR a Demon ignoring it is NOT humanly even POSSIBLE!!! It just ISN’T! PERIOD. Indeed, at that point you MUST test whatever it is you are being told, or are ‘seeing’. It might not even be possible at that MOMENT to “test” what you are told - in the 8 years since my experience I have examined what happened from EVERY possible angle available to us as humans. I have ‘tested’ everything I was told and ‘shown’ in relation to scripture and there is NOT ONE IOTA OF IT that DISAGREES with Scripture, nor does it ADD, or TAKE AWAY from it!
In my particular case I have even tested my DOCTORS as far as the possible PHYSICAL effects of large amounts of blood loss, heat stroke, dehydration, etc... And again, although these things (or at least one - the blood loss) were present as far as my physical body was concerned the other aspects of my experience do NOT match up with known psychological disturbances or psychoses — the FACT is that I even underwent a psychological evaluation immediately after my experience and the doctors that evaluated me did NOT find evidence of ANY psychological disturbance, illness or psychoses (one cannot be ‘cured’ within a day if there is a true psychotic break - especially without medication or other such treatment).
Granted, I WAS under an extreme amount of stress, but as I said — there was no EARTHLY PHYSICAL or PSYCHOLOGICAL effects that doctors could point to and say - AHA! It was all just a hallucination! And, trust me, I would have PREFERRED to be told I was just plain off my rocker!!! At least I would UNDERSTAND and be able to dismiss it. However, like I said I’ve examined my experience in EVERY way humanly possible.
You asked - what do they look like? I will tell you that it is NOT always some “being in shiny clothes” backlit with light, etc.. etc... That may be the appearance of SOME, but most assuredly not all. Surely you are familiar with the following passage:
Hebrews 13:2 (again copied from BibleGateway.com - NIV)
2Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it.
Granted, this is from the Old Testament, but it PROVES SCRIPTURALLY that we are in the presence of angels at times WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING IT. Indeed, even when we do NOT readily know it we are indeed being ‘watched’, and our behavior is recorded — how we treat others IS important for God may be giving us an OPPORTUNITY to prove our faithfulness and loyalty to his teachings!
There is more I could say, but this particular response is already very long... I will read through the rest of your posts to me and respond to them in a moment — I’m feeling rather hungry at the moment, and need to honor THAT feeling in order to think clearly! (Yes, that was a little bit of sarcastic humor I’m hoping you can appreciate! :-P)
I have to thank you though. In asking me to engage in this conversation it has helped me in my own faith. So, I always appreciate that! Again, I’m sorry I dismissed you so harshly earlier this morning.