[BTW, excellent timing sequence, ‘Zilla]. What is one of those “re-translated” “revelations” supposedly given to Smith during this time frame? – a “revelation” from March, 1829 that made it into two distinct versions as recorded in both the Book of Commandments (1833) and Doctrine & Covenants?
The sequence back from printed Book of Mormon, to printer's manuscript, to dictated manuscript, to Joseph Smith speaking the words he was translating by the gift and power of God, from the plates that were, in full consciousness, later examined by the eight witnesses, leaves no room for the insertion of anything else into the sequence that produced the Book of Mormon. Those who say that someone other than Joseph Smith produced the words that he read to the scribes of the dictated manuscript are not at all agreed on who the "real" author or authors was or were. Until they get their act together and agree on a deception that can be explained as fitting somewhere in the sequence from real plates, to speaking words read from the plates, to the dictated manuscript, to the printer's manuscript, to the first printing of the Book of Mormon, they will be seen for what they are, persons EMOTIONALLY WANTING the Book of Mormon to be false, without being able to explain exactly what the deception was and where it occurred in the sequence. To claim falsehood and not be able to demonstrate falsehood, in a way that the majority of Book of Mormon doubters can agree to, is childish. [John McDonnell]
Well, since what I’m about to say responds to this as well, I wanted to quote you John. You mention the sequence of Smith supposedly “translating by the gift and power of God” -- but by what authority did he have to actually change these so-called “revelations” from one printing to the next? And not just in the BoM, but the D&C as well. And an even bigger question, is that Smith claimed during this time frame ‘Zilla wrote about, that God told him that ”he shall pretend to no other gift” than translating “the book” [Smith didn’t even say “plates” in his original March 1829 “revelation”]. And, in fact, Smith was supposedly told ”for I will grant him no other gift.” On what grounds, then, did Smith go on to claim other ensuing revelation gifts? And why did he completely edit this “revelation” from what appeared in the original 1833 Book of Commandments to a later edition of this “same” “revelation” in the D&C?
Book of Commandments, chapter IV, p. 10: “…he has a gift to translate the book, and I have commanded him that he shall pretend to no other gift, for I will grant him no other gift.” (Title at top: “A revelation given to Joseph and Martin, in Harmony, Pennsylvania, March, 1829…”)
The bold-faced copy below was added later by Smith AFTER the publishing of the 1833 Book of Commandments. (How can you add to later revelations by God? If it was from God, who were you to censor and edit out God in the original version – only to quote him at more length later on? Does God appreciate having an “editor?”)
“…you have [changed from “he has”] a gift to translate the plates [changed from “book”] and this is the first gift that I bestowed upon you; and I have commanded that you should (“that you should” was originally “that he shall”] pretend to no other gift until my purpose is fulfilled in this; for I will grant unto you no other gift until it is finished.” (Current version of both Lds & Rlds D&C 5:4)
Again, these bold faced words were NOT in the original so-called March 1829 revelation. How do I know this? I have a copy of the 1833 Book of Commandments -- and I wrote the above comparing p. 10 of the BoC to D&C 5:4.
You need to answer this, John.
And you need to answer these questions. Who was the author or authors of the Book of Mormon? Was it based on the Solomon Spalding romance, the one that was discovered and reported on in 1885, which has no reference to Nephi and Lehi as was previously claimed? Was it based on a manuscript by a different Spalding? If so, where is that manuscript and its references to Nephi and Lehi as was claimed? Did Sydney Rigdon author the Book of Mormon? If so, can you document contacts between Rigdon and Smith before the Book of Mormon was published? Did Joseph Smith author, not just translate, the Book of Mormon? Exept for an ability to read, Joseph Smith was nearly uneducated. Yet millions of copies of the book have been sold, and it has been translated into many languages. How do you explain the foresight of the witnesses who testified to "nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come"?
But most importantly, is there among those who oppose "Joe Smith and his Mormon Bible" a clear consensus on who authored it? If there is, evidence should have been compiled to support JUST THAT AUTHORSHIP AND NO OTHER! If there is not a consensus... well, isn't that the case?