The “witnesses” did not witness anything.
Just as digruntled postal workers sometimes go postal, the disgruntled Stephen Burnett, who lost money in a church investment, went Stephen Burnett.
The witnesses DID witness what they formally testified of "unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come", and it HAS come to many nations, kindreds, tougues, and people! If these men were liars, why didn't God embarrass them by having the first edition of the Book of Mormon also be its last? Their printed testimonies have greater weight than disgruntled Stephen Burnett's angry letter. Though many of them became disgruntled themselves, instead of going Stephen Burnett, they never denied their written testimonies, which means that their testimonies are all the more reliable.
Why has the Qur'an been around for almost 1500 years?
This is called poisoning the well John - and it doesn't work because the history of these witnesses has neutalized their testimony all by them selves. You claim Burnett to be disgruntled - yet by their very excommunication and departure from mormonism these 'witnesses' de facto denied their 'testimonies'.
Martin Harris: Belonged to five different religions before becoming a Mormon; after leaving the LDS Church he changed his religious affiliation 8 more times. The LDS publication Millennial Star reported that Harris “became partially deranged…flying from one thing to another.” Phineas Young wrote his brother Brigham, “Martin Harris is a firm believer in Shakerism, says his testimony is greater than it was of the Book of Mormon” Harris later joined the Strangites, a rival Mormon church, and even went on a mission to England for that group. The Millennial Star said, “In one of his fits of monomania, he [Harris] went and joined the ‘Shakers’ or followers of Anna Lee. …but since Strang has made his entry…Martin leaves the ‘Shakers,’ whom he knows to be right,…and joins Strang….if the Saints wish to know what the Lord hath said to him they may turn to…the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and the person there called a ‘wicked man’ is no other than Martin Harris…Elder Wheelock will remember that evil men, like Harris, out of the evil treasure of their hearts bring forth evil things….” Harris became part of another “Testimony of Three Witnesses” which supported David Whitmer as the rightful successor to Joseph Smith.
Oliver Cowdery: According to Joseph Smith, while still a Mormon in good standing, Cowdery was deceived by false revelations received via a peep-stone belonging to a different Book of Mormon witness, one of the eight, Hiram Page. Years later Cowdery accused Joseph Smith of adultery and heresy. Smith accused Cowdery of stealing and uniting “with a gang of counterfeiters, thieves, liars, and blacklegs of the deepest dye, to deceive, cheat, and defraud the saints…” After Cowdery was excommunicated from the LDS Church, the Mormon publication Times and Seasons published a poem suggesting Cowdery had doubts about his testimony of the Book of Mormon. About the same time (1841), Cowdery joined the Methodist Protestant Church in Tiffin, Ohio. A sworn affidavit by a man named C.J. Keen recounts, “Mr. Cowdery expressed a desire to associate himself with a Methodist Protestant Church of this city….he was unanimously admitted a member thereof. At that time he arose and addressed the audience present, admitted his error and implored forgiveness, and said he was sorry and ashamed of his connection with Mormonism.” Cowdery was rebaptized LDS in 1848. However, according to David Whitmer, Cowdery died with a firm testimony that Joseph Smith was a fallen prophet and that Doctrine and Covenants was filled with errors.
David Whitmer: Was also deceived by Hiram Page’s peep-stone, and was accused of joining the same gang of “blacklegs” with which Cowdery was accused of being involved. Years after his 1838 excommunication from the LDS Church, Whitmer supported the Strangite movement for a time, but switched to a church being formed by William McLellin in 1848. Whitmer was to be the prophet of this new church, and in one revelation he claimed he received from God, he was told that the Mormons “polluted my name, and have done continually wickedness in my sight.” Whitmer never rejoined the LDS Church. In 1887, the year before his death, he published An Address to All Believers in The Book of Mormon. Whitmer wrote, “Now, in 1849 the Lord saw fit to manifest unto John Whitmer, Oliver Cowdery and myself nearly all the errors in doctrine into which we had been led by the heads of the old [LDS] church. We were shown that the Book of Doctrine and Covenants contained many doctrines of error, and that it must be laid aside…. They were led out of their errors, and are upon record to this effect, rejecting the Book of Doctrine and Covenants… ” In another 1887 publication, An Address to All Believers in Christ, Whitmer wrote, “If you believe my testimony to the Book of Mormon; if you believe that God spake to us three witnesses by his own voice, then I tell you that in June, 1838, God spake to me again by His own voice from the heavens, and told me to ‘separate myself from among the Latter Day Saints’… In the spring of 1838, the heads of the church and many of the members had gone deep into error and blindness.”
I fail to see where their 'testimonies' are more RELIABLE John. Or is the testimony of the three 'witnesses' just that of a disgruntled postal worker too? If that is the case, then they have in fact denied their testimony John. You can't have it both ways.
You know, even before this whole bom thing got started, smith tried to make a living as a treasure seeker. In 1826 Joseph was brought before a justice to answer the charge that he was an imposter and was bilking people out of their money. In this smith would place a seer stone into a hat and look into it inorder to ‘find’ the treasure. My, now isn’t this intersting. Smith was employing a method of ‘divination’ to bilk people out of their money - a method he would also claim to use to ‘translate’ hidden golden plates. Why believe that a practice used to defraud people would be the same practice used by ‘god’ to ‘translate’ a book with absolute no historical veriacity - unless it was a scheme to bilk people out of money as well.
“If these men were liars, why didn’t God embarrass them by having the first edition of the Book of Mormon also be its last?”
I think it has far more to do with what Satan wants than God. Though God will ultimately use the cult for His heresy. The Christian God is omnipotent, unlike the trillions of mormon gods, who are not omnipotent.
“Their printed testimonies have greater weight than disgruntled Stephen Burnett’s angry letter.”
It was admitted in the quote Godzilla posted that they did not actually SEE the plates. Nor did they “testify”. Smith coerced them into signing something HE wrote.
“Though many of them became disgruntled themselves, instead of going Stephen Burnett, they never denied their written testimonies, which means that their testimonies are all the more reliable. “
That’s the only possibility you can muster, huh? It is, of course, not likely, since they never saw any of the plates - and virtually all left the mormonic church.
If they had witnessed this as from God, why would they all leave???????
If that’s the best mormonism has, it is certainly lame.
ampu