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To: conservativegramma
You don't really know about The Church at all -- your statements are indication of that -- your pastors have fed you their lies. Like for instance your statement that You place Christ second to Mary. If you did attend a mass, you'd find Christ mentioned throughout and Mary may be mentioned once or twice (depending on the readings for that day). Secondly, Mary is considered as co-operating with Christ in Her salvation -- co-operating in the sense that she said YES when the angel came to her.

The sinlessness of Mary -- another point which you have been fed false propaganda. Mary was sinless not because of anything she did or any power of her own but BECAUSE OF GOD's GRACE. Mary owes everything in her position to God. God purified the ark in which was placed the first covenant, and He did the same with the second ark -- when the angel comes, he calls Mary "filled with grace" -- filled with the Grace of God. And anyone filled to the brim with God's grace cannot sin --> God's grace saves us even when we are touched by it, how much more would God's grace filled to the brim save another creature, a creature like Mary?

The belief in the sinlessness of Mary dates back to the time when the Gospels say the angel called her "filled with Grace" -- this, as I said, is a favor of God on one of His creatures. This in no way contradicts scripture and is in fact written in scripture. ("filled with grace").

Your statement that it was Pelegius who quoted it is again a symbol of how much propaganda your pastors have fed. Pelegius believed that we could save ourselves with works alone. This was and is rejected by The Church. If Pelegius believed that we could save ourselves and didn't need God's grace, then for him to admit the sinlessness of MAry is to deny his own theorem - he would have contradicted himself
1,043 posted on 06/13/2010 11:30:58 AM PDT by Cronos (Origen(200AD)"The Church received from theApostles the tradition of giving Baptism even to infants")
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To: Cronos

>The sinlessness of Mary — another point which you have been fed false propaganda. Mary was sinless not because of anything she did or any power of her own but BECAUSE OF GOD’s GRACE.

If that’s the definition of ‘sinless’ that you are using then I’m sinless!
But I reject that definition; to apply ‘sinless’ in such a way is to be a liar: “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” — 1 John 1:8


1,049 posted on 06/15/2010 1:09:02 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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