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To: conservativegramma

Dear Lady I strongly disagree - You believe its not there. I know scripture too. Its like your looking at another angle of the same scriptures remember this you come from a different background. You were strongly taught to be against with a very deep bias with a prism view. We could go back and forth.Which you obviously gloss over to what I see. You can say the same towards me. It really starts with what is the Church. We see it differently. I think you misunderstand the word “pray”. Pray has 2 main meanings in the Dictionary 1- worship————————————————————— 2. To ask (someone) imploringly; beseech. Now often used elliptically for I pray you to introduce a request or entreaty: PRAY BE CAREFUL.
3. To make a devout or earnest request for: I PRAY YOUR PERMISSION TO SPEAK.
4. To move or bring by prayer or entreaty.
We are not putting the pray in the same as God-Its with God-In him with him. Christ came to establish a Church not a Bible. The Church eventually brought a bible which recorded the account of the apostles and prophets with guide for living. No where do you see Christ handing out the bible. The Church has always been there from the beginning as recorded in scripture. Like the authority Christ gives to Apostles in the gospel of John.————From: John 20:19-23

Jesus Appears to the Disciples
[19] On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors shut where
the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and
said to them, “Peace be with you.” [20] When He had said this, He showed them
His hands and His side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
[21] Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. AS THE FATHER HAS SENT ME, EVEN SO I SEND YOU.”
[22] And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and
said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. [23] If you forgive the sins of any, they are
forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
———————————————————————————————Notice” AS THE FATHER HAS SENT ME, EVEN SO I SEND YOU.” He is giving the the same Authority like a power of legal attorney for an estate. The estate is the Church. Notice Peter in ——————————————————Acts 3:Then Peter said, “Silver or gold I do not have, but what I have I give you. IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth, WALK.” 7Taking him by the right hand, he helped him up, and INSTANTLY the man’s feet and ankles became strong. 8He jumped to his feet and began to walk. Then he went with them into the temple courts, walking and jumping, and praising God. 9When all the people saw him walking and praising God, 10they recognized him as the same man who used to sit begging at the temple gate called Beautiful, and they were filled with wonder and amazement at what had happened to him.”-————————————————————————————
IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST -Power of Attorney as Christ did defined by the Church. The torch was passed. Its called Apostolic CATHOLIC CHURCH. SInce the beginning for 2000 thousand years. Its amazing its lasted that long. God is blessing his Church .—————————————————*******************************************************************************************
Commentary: JOHN 20: 19- 23

19-20. Jesus appears to the Apostles on the evening of the day of which He rose.
He presents Himself in their midst without any need for the doors to be opened,
by using the qualities of His glorified body; but in order to dispel any impression
that He is only a spirit He shows them His hands and His side: there is no lon-
ger any doubt about its being Jesus Himself, about His being truly risen from the
dead. He greets them twice using the words of greeting customary among the
Jews, with the same tenderness as He previously used put into this salutation.
These friendly words dispel the fear and shame the Apostles must have been
feeling at behaving so disloyally during His passion: He has created the normal
atmosphere of intimacy, and now He will endow them with transcendental po-
wers.

21. Pope Leo XIII explained how Christ transferred His own mission to the Apos-
tles: “What did He wish in regard to the Church founded, or about to be founded?
This: to transmit to it the same mission and the same mandate which He had re-
ceived from the Father, that they should be perpetuated. This He clearly resolved
to do: this He actually did. ‘As the Father hath sent Me, even so I send you’ (John
20:21). ‘As Thou didst send Me into the world, so I have sent them into the world’
(John 17:18). [...] When about to ascend into Heaven, He sends His Apostles in
virtue of the same power by which He had been sent from the Father; and He
charges them to spread abroad and propagate His teachings (cf. Matthew 28:18),
so that those obeying the Apostles might be saved, and those disobeying should
perish (cf. Mark 16:16). [...] Hence He commands that the teaching of the Apos-
tles should be religiously accepted and piously kept as if it were His own: ‘He who
hears you hears Me, and he who rejects you rejects Me’ (Luke 10:16). Wherefore
the Apostles are ambassadors of Christ as He is the ambassador of the Father”
(Leo XIII, “Satis Cognitum”). In this mission the bishops are the successors of
the Apostles: “Christ sent the Apostles as He Himself had been sent by the Fa-*
ther, and then through the Apostles made their successors, the bishops, sharers
in His consecration and mission. The function of the bishops’ ministry was han-
ded over in a subordinate degree to priests so that they might be appointed in
the order of the priesthood and be co-workers of the episcopal order for the pro-
per fulfillment of the apostolic mission that had been entrusted to it by Christ”
(Vatican II, “Presbyterorum Ordinis”, 2).

22-23. The Church has always understood—and has in fact defined—that Jesus
Christ here conferred on the Apostles authority to forgive sins, a power which is
exercised in the Sacrament of Penance. “The Lord then especially instituted the
Sacrament of Penance when, after being risen from the dead, He breathed upon
His disciples and said: “Receive the Holy Spirit...’ The consensus of all the Fa-
thers has always acknowledged that by this action so sublime and words so
clear the power of forgiving and retaining sins was given to the Apostles and
their lawful successors for reconciling the faithful who have fallen after Baptism”
(Council of Trent, “De Paenitentia”, Chapter 1).

The Sacrament of Penance is the most sublime expression of God’s love and
mercy towards men, described so vividly in Jesus’ parable of the prodigal son (cf.
Luke 15:11-32). The Lord always awaits us, with His arms wide open, waiting for
us to repent—and then He will forgive us and restore us to the dignity of being His
sons.

The Popes have consistently recommended Christians to have regular recourse
to this Sacrament: “For a constant and speedy advancement in the path of vir-
tue we highly recommend the pious practice of frequent Confession, introduced
by the Church under the guidance of the Holy Spirit; for by this means we grow
in a true knowledge of ourselves and in Christian humility, bad habits are uproo-
ted, spiritual negligence and apathy are prevented, the conscience is purified
and the will strengthened, salutary spiritual direction is obtained, and grace is
increased by the efficacy of the Sacrament itself” (Pius XII, “Mystici Corporis”).

*********************************************************************************************
Source: “The Navarre Bible: Text and Commentaries”. Biblical text from the
Revised Standard Version and New Vulgate. Commentaries by members of
the Faculty of Theology, University of Navarre, Spain.

Published by Four Courts Press, Kill Lane, Blackrock, Co. Dublin, Ireland, and
by Scepter Publishers in the United States.——————————————I know We will Agree to Disagree most likely but that’s it in a concise manner- May Christ Guide Us Always! I pray the Best in Christ for You!


463 posted on 06/03/2010 9:08:46 AM PDT by johngrace (Where The Holy God dwelled for Nine Months -No sinful man entered! Praise Jesus & Hail Mary Indeed!)
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To: johngrace
Sorry John, as long as I'm seeing images like these:

I frankly don't accept anything that you have to say is trustworthy. Not even your Scripture quotations are trustworthy because they've been re-interpreted for you out of their intended meaning by a self-proclaimed infallible but really in fact fallible magisterium. See? Your final authority is the Magisterium. Mine is Holy writ.

Consequently, for me you have no more authority or truth in anything you post than I would expect from a Mormon, buddist, Hindu or Muslem. All are false.

As long as I'm seeing the above idol worship.....its all heretical. And what little truth may shine through from time to time, again is generally overshadowed by the blasphemies that I see day to day like the above. So we really have nothing more to say to one another on this subject.

470 posted on 06/03/2010 9:22:38 AM PDT by conservativegramma
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To: johngrace; conservativegramma; Leoni

As to confession, I actually think the Catholics have a good Idea here, TO A POINT. The SCRIPTURE does admonish us to “confess our faults to one another” as a way of understanding one another and to help new believers understand that even the more mature have been thru the same issues and have had the same nasty faults and continued struggles. It can help build trust and spiritual cohesion to discover that as God has not condemned us then the humans we have common faith with also do not condemn us.

Sometimes, some cases need a special touch and one can’t just confess to a group right away, this is where a priest hearing anonymous confession can really do some good. A church offering private anonymous confessionals allows a priest to offer kindly advice, to urge repentance, to pray for that soul ect, and it is in no violation of the scriptural admonishment to “confess ones faults to one another”.

This in no way negates the fact that anyone can ask God at any time for help and forgiveness for sins. Repentence includes going to folks and making things right where one can or forgiving others when forgiveness needs to be done.

It would be nice if a confessional booth could be instituted in a lot of the protestant churches. As for the doctrine of ‘priestly or pastorly absolution of sins’ via the confessional, a case could be made for and against. Christians are all fellow intercessors and all of called priests, pastors, reverends having heard a confession and seen evidence of repentence might, under God’s special calling on their lives, be able to pronounce a soul, “forgiven, go and sin no more”; As long as it was understood by all that it was Christ that did the forgiving and not the priest in his own power, but rather in Christ’s name! “For what you bind on Earth shall be bound in heaven and what you loose on Earth shall also be loosed in Heaven” as the scriptures say.


477 posted on 06/03/2010 9:47:09 AM PDT by mdmathis6 (Mike Mathis is my name,opinions are my own,subject to flaming when deserved!)
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