A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely sobers us again.
The WORD priest evolved from the word presbyter. In the Catholic Church priests are often called presbyters, for example in some canons.
The Old Testament priesthood was fulfilled in Christ. I agree there.
However, you do not understand what we say about the priesthood, and so you speak of it as if it were essentially distinct from the eternal priesthood of Christ.
The false polemicists of your side love few things as much as they enjoy getting the vapors and twisted knicker syndrome over the idea of the Catholic presbyter being “another Christ.”
But their loud and cherished consternation looks as ridiculous and as false as most of their arguments and charges because they do not take the trouble to understand that with which they are disagreeing.
This is not mind-reading. It is a conclusion from the arguments made. As usual they are arguments not against what we hold but against what we do not hold.
You see, at least here on FR, the basic Protestant and anti-Catholic maneuver is to shift attack and shift defense. Argument is not used as a tool to find or uncover the truth. It is used rather as a kind of weapon to discomfit the other side. Since discomfiture rather than truth is the goal, when a refutation is made of some anti-catholic argument, the usual response is to change the subject. Thus, the anti-Catholics make the same arguments over and over again and never learn from them.
So, go ahead and cite Garry Wills. His iffy relationship with the Church makes sense in the context of his superficial understanding of her teaching. And the same for the other guy.
The argument, however, is circular. The assumption implicit in citing them is that the ‘true’ church somehow ceased about a generation after the death of John. And this assumption requires that the promised gift of the spirit was kind of a dud. In the protestant view it took the Holy Spirit about 1500 years to get his act together enough to make a successful stand against those awful, stupid, and superstitious successors of the Apostles. The martyrs of Rome and of the various persecutions might be worthy of a little respect, but they were just SO wrong about what really mattered.
So when Jesus promised the 12 that they would be led into all truth, he left out the part about “in 1450 years give or take.” That's what we are expected to believe. And the people who expect us to believe it repeat the same arguments over and over again like machines, while rarely demonstrating a willingness, to say nothing of ability, to understand what it is they are arguing against.
WHATever.
“The WORD priest evolved from the word presbyter.”
Emphasis on EVOLVED. Evolution involves a gradual change from one thing to another. It suggests the role of priest in the Catholic Church differs from the role of presbyter in the early church...
It does not matter what the Catholic church calls presbyters.. what matters is what GOD CALLS THEM..and it was God that chose greek as the language for the NT
The word presbyteros has a SPECIFIC meaning AND IT IS NOT PRIEST.
1) elder, of age,
a) the elder of two people b) advanced in life, an elder, a senior
1) forefathers
a term of rank or office
a) among the Jews
1) members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
2) of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
b) among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably
c) the twenty four members of the heavenly Sanhedrin or court seated on thrones around the throne of God
If God had intended a priesthood in the new church, He would have said so ..using the greek words for priest
archiereus which translates into "High Priest" and hiereus which translates one that OFFERS SACRIFICES.
God did not use those words because the Jewish priesthood was a type of Christ which was fulfilled on the cross..
In AD 70, God put an exclamation point on that by destroying the Jewish priesthood as well..The type was fulfilled on the cross
Mad Dog you can go on and on..but scripture speaks for itself.. NO priesthood in the new testament church .
During Constantine's rule the church was corrupted and a part of that corruption was a return to the priesthood
All the things I've been trying to say.....LOL!
An authorized mediator who offers a true sacrifice in acknowledgment of God's supreme dominion over human beings and in expiation for their sins. A priest's mediation is the reverse of that of a prophet, who communicates from God to the people. A priest mediates from the people to God.
Christ, who is God and man, is the first, last, and greatest priest of the New Law. He is the eternal high priest who offered himself once and for all on the Cross, a victim of infinite value, and he continually renews that sacrifice on the altar through the ministry of the Church.
Within the Church men who are specially ordained as priests to consecrate and offer the body and blood of Christ in the Mass. The Apostles were the first ordained priests, when on Holy Thursday night Christ told them to do in his memory what he had just done at the Last Supper. All priests and bishops trace their ordination to the Apostles. Their second essential priestly power, to forgive sins, was conferred by Christ on Easter Sunday, when he told the Apostles, "For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained" (John 20-22,23).
All the Christian faithful, however, also share in the priesthood by their baptismal character. They are enabled to offer themselves in sacrifice with Christ through the Eucharistic liturgy. They offer the Mass in the sense that they internally unite themselves with the outward offering made by the ordained priest alone.
In the early Church a member of a group (usually of priests) who advised a bishop. Together they formed the presbytery, which, under a bishop, was the governing body of a community. The presbyter having no official duties, he was often commissioned by the bishop to teach, celebrate Mass, and baptize. Presbyters were usually of advanced age and, like a bishop, chosen by the people. Their rank was above that of deacons but inferior to that of bishops. There was no restriction on their number.
In your religion obviously, but not in biblical Christianity...
The argument, however, is circular. The assumption implicit in citing them is that the ‘true’ church somehow ceased about a generation after the death of John. And this assumption requires that the promised gift of the spirit was kind of a dud. In the protestant view it took the Holy Spirit about 1500 years to get his act together enough to make a successful stand against those awful, stupid, and superstitious successors of the Apostles.
Not accurate at all...We do know that the 'true church' didn't die off in spite of your religion's attempt to snuff it out and burn it's scriptures...
There was however always a remnant to pass along and preserve what God had revealed...
So when Jesus promised the 12 that they would be led into all truth, he left out the part about “in 1450 years give or take.”
The Holy Spirit was not promised to just the 12...All Christians are indwelt with that same Spirit that leads to all truth and raised Jesus from the dead...That Spirit of Truth...
The fact that so many reject the written truth of God is evidence that the 'flesh', the 'old man', still has plenty of power and is resistant...