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To: Secret Agent Man
"The bible doesn’t even say that."

Nor does the bible say that orange juice is packed with Vitamin C...we're left to infer and discover certain things about creation on our own...and the accumulation, transference and ability to validate information are among those uniquely human characteristics. The bible does say that man was given dominion over the animals, suggesting that we are on a separate plane of existence from them, and arguably over them. Now some on this thread have implied that some people have used that as an excuse for mistreating animals. I would argue that it gives humans a certain God-directed responsibility for and to them, and it's one that is best filled and carried out by carefully observing and recognizing the distinctions between humans and animals, and not blurring them.

I'm reluctant to continue to refer to dogs, as we're discussing the animal world in general, but it's the example I'm best able to speak to. I would aver that my relationships I've had with dogs have been very special, unique, and rewarding precisely because I related to them as dogs, and not tried to ascribe human qualities to them. God gave us a limited ability to try and empathize with other creatures and see the world through their eyes...I doubt my dog has the capacity, desire or certainly the notion of empathy to want to see the world through mine. Ergo, the onus in any human-animal relationship is on the human in satisfying God's larger design for those relationships whether they are symbiotic(i.e. dogs), agricultural (i.e. cattle) or adversarial (i.e. malarial mosquitoes).

To think that God placed any responsibility on the animals in any of those relationships entirely contradicts the biblical notion that God gave man dominion over the beasts.

56 posted on 06/16/2010 3:06:34 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Joe 6-pack

I can see where you would think that, given the current state of the world we are living in. And in this current world, I generally agree with you that animals have any ‘responsibility’ in human-animal relationships, especially so now since God generally gave them a sense of fear of man after the flood as a general self-preservation trait.

But to say that how it is now is their maximum capacity, or that there’s nothing more to them while living under less than ideal conditions of the curse, which were not the same as the ideal conditions and abilities they had before the fall of man and the whole creation was affected, isn’t right. For instance, remember we all were not made to die. We were to have dominion over animals, but they were made for us to enjoy as well, and live in perfect harmony with. Remember that in Genesis, the devil took the form of the serpent and talked to Eve. Note that Scripture doesn’t mention Eve being surprised, scared, or shocked at a talking animal and carrying on a conversation with that animal. Remember the Lord allowed Balaam’s donkey to speak to Balaam and ask him why he deserved a beating, that he had always been a good animal to him.

What is now, I believe, is not what it was like, nor will be like when God does come back and restore everything. I believe, based on what I have read and studied in Scripture, that much like the Jews’ eyes have been partially blinded as to Jesus until the times of the Gentiles are over, I believe the way creation right now (in the fallen world) is operating at only a small fraction of its intended capacity. And we will see just how it will be at 100% when He comes back and restores things to the way they were supposed to be before we mucked it up.


57 posted on 06/16/2010 5:21:10 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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