Posted on 07/02/2010 4:21:11 AM PDT by TSgt
In its long struggle to grapple with sexual abuse, the Vatican often cites as a major turning point the decision in 2001 to give the office led by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger the authority to cut through a morass of bureaucracy and handle abuse cases directly.
The decision, in an apostolic letter from Pope John Paul II, earned Cardinal Ratzinger, now Pope Benedict XVI, a reputation as the Vatican insider who most clearly recognized the threat the spreading sexual abuse scandals posed to the Roman Catholic Church.
But church documents and interviews with canon lawyers and bishops cast that 2001 decision and the future pope’s track record in a new and less flattering light.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
And do you REALLY believe the NY Slimes.
My perspective is that if the priest or minister is guilty to go ahead and have a trial. It’s the individual that committed the offense/sin, not the Pope.
I also have a problem with many of these stories because they presume guilty until proven innocent. I thought our court system was founded on “presumed innocent until proven guilty.”
I have first hand knowledge of this with a priest who spoke to the public about his trial with three attorneys who also attended the trial as spectators. (One from my parish and two from a neighboring parish.) There were state records that proved he was NOT even with the accusers on the day they claimed they were molested. On the first one — the priest was not even working there yet; on the second one — the priest had moved from that assignment to another; and on the third case — another priest took the individual to see the site where his sister died and not the accused priest. The second priest also was at the public meeting and spoke up.
The three attorneys thought it would be slam dunk trial with all this evidence that the priest was not even with the accusers on the dates supposedly important to their individual cases — and remember, there were state records to back up those dates.
The trial went on and on and the three attorneys knew something was terribly wrong. So when the jury came back and pronounced the priest guilty they were horrified. One chased after a juror who left hurriedly, but the juror would not talk. As a second juror left he talked — “When we got into the deliberation room they said, ‘Well, he’s a Catholic priest, so he’s got to be guilty.’”
I find that attitude present here on FR among many God-fearing Republicans too, and it stuns me. I will always speak out for a fair trial and “INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.’ Don’t take that attitude to mean that I support offenders of any origin, please. Just see that a fair trial is held before making any accuasations at all. As Republicans, don’t we always look for the facts? Why then, with Catholic priests does this attitutde of guilty until provene innocent persist? (And among many professes Christians, I might add!!!!!)
I have posted facts and back-up threads before that the most probably pedophiles are (in order)
fathers
teachers
coaches
Protestant ministers
amd priests are way down on the list.
Now, as as someone who believes in God and believes in our court system....are you going to continue to say that ALL the priests are guilty until proven innocoent?
Because I have first-hand knowledge of a case that was bogus — I understand that some people might think I support the offending priests. I do not. They need to have their day in court with a FAIR trial.
I will post supporting threads on the order of pedophile offenses in the next post.
May God continue to bless you as you pursue your full belief in his mercy. Amen.
The most probable pedophiles in order are:
Fathers
Teachers
Coaches
Protestant ministers
Priests are way down on the list.
So if a father is a teacher of mid-high history, coaches the girl’s basketball team and is a youth minister at his church on weekends/Sundays — watch out! He would be much more prone to pedophilia that any priest.
___________________________________________________________
Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers
Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year
Abuse by Protestant Ministers of Every Denomination
Child Sexual Molestation by Various Protestant Clergy
"Yeshiva" of Brooklyn also Guilty of Child Abuse
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Teachers and Pedophilia - In YOUR Backyard
Washington Post -- D.C. school officials reported 220 abuse allegations against teachers
Sex Abuse by Teachers Said Worse Than Catholic Church
WHEN BOYS ARE MOLESTED BY TEACHERS AND OTHERS IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY
Forgotten Study: Abuse in School 100 Times Worse than by Priests
Yes I agree with that part. Most Catholics will agree that canon law as civil and criminal law can be slow, frustrating and often not as effective as we like. But that is not the point of the article. The point of the article is to lay this problem at then Cardinal Ratziner, now Pope Benedict’s feet.
Sorry I forgot part of this quote:
“When we got into the deliberation room they said, ‘Well, he’s a Catholic priest, so he’s got to be guilty. NOW let’s prove that he is guilty.”
Hadn't noticed, but there is a logical reason for this. Most of the world of front line journalism does nothing on Saturday and little on Sunday unless there's a disaster or inauguration or something of that magnitude. There's no next day refutation in the normal news cycle that anyone is paying attention to. In this case, the weekend works in their favor.
Should have been:
among many professed Christians,
Christ died for all sinners!
As I said in some other thread, we moderns don't have a 'template' for understanding the polity of the Catholic Church.
One image I play with is that it's like an autocracy with a very lazy autocrat, whose first response to anything related to the polity as such will be, "Deal! I'm busy!"
Not that the Pope (or any Pope recently) is lazy. It's that they think their job is more teaching and preaching and time spent on this or that system or process takes away from their primary call and responsibility.
So not only is is a principle that resonsibility should devolve downwards to the lowest possible level, but - on the rare occasions when it works, it gives the Pope more time to teach and preach.
And this even has to do with the "development" of doctrine. That is, most questions on which the Pope pronounces do not originate in the Vatican. It's more than these guys over HERE are saying, "We think the Son is of like substance with the Father," while those guys over THERE are saying, We think the Son is of ONE substance with the Father." So if the fight gets nasty enough, either a council has to be called or the Pope has got to rear back and come out with some resolution.
it appears the Catholic church is an organized yet disorganized institution.
I think that's pretty good. I have said that when I was outside the Church I thought of it as this amazingly well-oiled, slick, efficient bureaucracy cum intelligence service. But I have come to think of it as more like an avalanche -- a huge chaotic mess, rolling down hill, swallowing trees and small buildings as it rolls ......
And as I have said way too many times: I don't believe in organized religion; I'm a Catholic. Among Catholics that almost always gets a laugh.
Last I heard of Law he was living at the Vatican with a staff of servants and a comfortable retirement check.
Well, you are right there. Despite outward appearances, it's not that organized.
I believe Law is working as the rector of either St. Mary Major or St. John Lateran.
No retirement check. No comforts, still working.
We went to St. Mary Major from Boston. St. John Lateran is actually the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Rome, so I would imagine that rector is from that archdiocese. Still, being rector of St. Mary Major is not without it’s problems considering the age of the church building and all the coordination that needs to happen, but it’s not on the same level as running a cardinalrik. A lot of men who are elevated to cardinal don’t have the administrative skills to run anything, truth be told.
We went to St. Mary Major from Boston. St. John Lateran is actually the Cathedral of the Archdiocese of Rome, so I would imagine that rector is from that archdiocese. Still, being rector of St. Mary Major is not without it’s problems considering the age of the church building and all the coordination that needs to happen, but it’s not on the same level as running a cardinalrik. A lot of men who are elevated to cardinal don’t have the administrative skills to run anything, truth be told.
Thanks for posting the article for me. I’ve never been able to figure out how to do it.
BTW, drudge a link to this article on his site as well.
“cannon” probably just a typo, come on. It is 4 am in the morning when it was posted.
The way you describe structure and responsibility it makes sound like someone needs to get the house in order.
About Fr Murphy it didn’t exactly help LE when the offending priest lied to LE that the youth under his care were mentally ill rather than hearing impaired.
No wonder LE dropped the case.
A note on "UOGCC? Who's that?" for those who may be unfamiliar:
UOGCC = Ukrainian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church. In 2008, Elian Dohnal, a Catholic priest of the Basilian order, announced to Pope Benedict XVI that he and three other Basilian Fathers had been consecrated as bishops in order to, as he said, save the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church from heresy and apostasy.
Dohnal did not identify the bishop or bishops who had performed the consecration, which was not recognized by the Catholic Church. They were excommunicated by the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, and later (2009) announced the formal founding of a new church, the Ukrainian Orthodox Greek Catholic Church. At that time they professed the Catholic faith.
This year they declared an excommunication upon 265 professors of the Pontifical Gregorian University and declared that over 800 bishops of Europe had excommunicated themselves.
This casts no direct judgment on the arguments made in their letter, which should be evaluated on their own merits.
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