Dispensationalism (Dispensationalists Caucus)

God is sovereign in all things and his action towards his elect before the foundation of the world has always been out of his grace flowing from his sovereignty.

Rom. 4:2-5, “For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.”

Deu 7:6-9, “For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye [were] the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.”

It would be helpful to have some Scripture for your argument.

The above is yet another example of the approach I already cited. You see things that aren't there. You don't see things that are there. And the reason you don't is because you've already accepted as authoritative something the origin of which is extra-biblical and of recent origin. It's almost as though having eyes, you see not and having ears, you hear not. Jesus had something to say about that. You may want to check that out.

For instance, you do know, don't you, that the believers are not gathered out of the world at the end of the age until the "sons of the evil" are first cleared out of it?

Unless you care to give Scripture to support your beliefs, I'm not interested in your opinions/thesis.

It's almost as though having eyes, you see not and having ears, you hear not. Jesus had something to say about that.

That's really strange. That's exactly what I was thinking when I was reading your post. About you.

Either support your posts to me with Scripture, or don't waste your time. Or mine.

You see things that aren't there. You don't see things that are there.

Reading the mind of another Freeper is a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

Also, this Religion Forum thread is labeled "Dispensationalists Caucus" meaning if you are not Dispensationalist, then do not post on this thread.

God is sovereign in all things and his action towards his elect before the foundation of the world has always been out of his grace flowing from his sovereignty.

I agree.

However, if we are to understand His Word that He gave to us we need to avoid forcing interpretation to fit our preconceived notions. For example, Jesus Christ came to minister to the Jews and instructed his disciples to not go to the Gentiles. It wasn't until after several rejections of Jesus Christ by Israel that the Gospel was given to the Gentiles. Scripture foreshadows this, but within Judaism it was never considered.

Also, "The Good News" of the Kingdom had a very different meaning to Jews prior to the crucifixion than it does to Gentiles after the crucifixion.

Exactly, wmfights. The Jews did not know there was a two-fold reason for Christ's first coming. First, to set up His Kingdom on earth, and second, to die for our sins. Nor did He tell them the second reason until it was revealed to Paul. And why? Why wouldn't He reveal this to the 12?

1 Corinthians 2:7,8 tell us clearly why they did not know.Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory".

Without His dying for sins, we would have had no way to God. He had to die, to make that way to God possible. Had Satan known this, Christ would NOT have died at Calvary. Satan thought he had won that day. He had no idea what had actually happened with the death of Christ.

The setting up of the Kingdom with Christ as Messiah was the message Christ gave to the 12, and it is the message they gave, beginning on the day of Pentecost.

Matthew lays out what the 12 were to do. The Great Commission.

They were NOT to go to the Gentiles. (10:5). They were to teach repent and be baptized for remission of sins. (28:19). They were to begin their ministry in Jerusalem (10:6). Then they were to wait, before witnessing, for the power of the Holy Spirit to be outpoured on them. Which is what happened on the day of Pentecost. Peter doesn't tell the Jews gathered there that day that "Christ died for our sins, was buried, and rose again the third day" because He didn't know this 2nd secret of Christ's 1st coming. No one knew it until it was revealed to Paul from Jesus Christ.

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