Posted on 08/27/2010 9:45:47 PM PDT by GonzoII
It was remarkably like the area where Joseph Smith lived, down to the place names.
Book of Mormon
Northeast US
However, LDS where unsuccessful in finding any archeological record of the major civilizations and battles of the BOM there. So the hunt continues forever Southward. I believe they're down to Central America now…
I would be interested in knowing what your thoughts and perspectives on the scriptures cited previously: whole chapter of John 17 (ONENESS of Godhead with Apostles and with followers of Christ), Rom. 8:17 (joint-heirs with Christ), and John 10:34/Psalms 82:6 (Ye are gods)?
The fact that Jesus is the Heir indicates that He is a distinct person and will continue to exist as a person for Eternity. If Jesus and God the Father were of the same substance (or same entity), then it would not make sense for Jesus to proclaim that He came to do the Will of the Father (John 6:38).
What does it mean to you that we were created in the IMAGE of God? It is recorded in scripture that a number of prophets have talked with God “face to face” which indicates that God has an anthropomorphic appearance. Also, it is recorded that God has feelings and passions and determination, which is further evidence of the Personhood for each member of the Godhead.
“It was remarkably like the area where Joseph Smith lived, down to the place names.”
This is humorous. However, most Mormons believe that Lehi and his family traveled from the Midian Peninsula (present day Saudi Arabia) eastward to the west coast of the Americas. I don’t think they would have marched 2 or 3 thousand miles to the Great Lakes area.
There is an Aztec legend of the visitation of Quetzalcoatl, often referred to as The Bearded White God. Mormons believe this is based on the actual visit of Christ in the Americas.
See John 10:
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Here is Jesus talking about His intention to go visit the “other sheep” located in a different place. Mormons teach that this was in the Americas.
However, most Mormons believe that Lehi and his family traveled from the Midian Peninsula (present day Saudi Arabia) eastward to the west coast of the Americas.
Absolutely no archeological evidence for the events in the BOM. Huge civilizations, armies, huge battles, no evidence at all. Unlike biblical evidence for Judaism and Christianity.
There is an Aztec legend of the visitation of Quetzalcoatl, often referred to as The Bearded White God. Mormons believe this is based on the actual visit of Christ in the Americas.
Or it could be Moses, or a Viking, or anything you like. The Central American civilizations bear no resemblance to the BOM civilizations. LDS is grasping at any straw. As I said, after North America (which the original Mormons believed was the site), was debunked, the search continued Southward - and still no evidence.
Mormons teach that this was in the Americas.
I know they do. The main topic of Smith's time was "where did the Indians come from?" (American Indians). Smith used this as part of the story. Until the real origin was proven - and it wasn't anywhere near Smith's story. The Central American Indians origin is not according to BOM either; it a red herring.
Smith has been completely debunked. His "translation" of the Book of Abraham is more than sufficient proof of fraud, and yet there's much more proof. The LDS will tell you to go with your burning in your heart or some such, when faced with solid evidence that the whole thing is bunko.
The Trinity consists of three persons in one Godhead. But not persons as "individual, self-actualized center of free will and conscious activity." "The one God exists in three Persons and one substance, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
One substance (not in the sense of a material substance), rather than the one in "purpose" as LDS teaches.
The Word became flesh." God did not become another God or create another God or beget another God.
What does it mean to you that we were created in the IMAGE of God?
Primarily that we know the difference between good and evil.
It is recorded in scripture that a number of prophets have talked with God “face to face” which indicates that God has an anthropomorphic appearance.Or a burning bush. It would be something that man could see, could even be something familiar, but God is not contained by the burning bush or any other physical object.
Also, it is recorded that God has feelings and passions and determination, which is further evidence of the Personhood for each member of the Godhead.
We anthropomorphize God. Full comprehension of God is always beyond any man. Attributing passions would necessitate and changing God. God is unchanging and not subject to passions.
However, most Mormons believe that Lehi and his family traveled from the Midian Peninsula (present day Saudi Arabia) eastward to the west coast of the Americas.
Absolutely no archeological evidence for the events in the BOM. Huge civilizations, armies, huge battles, no evidence at all. Unlike biblical evidence for Judaism and Christianity.
I'll just say a few things:
1. Please go to fairlds.org for a number of findings in Central America.
2. There were cataclysmic earthquakes: 1811/12 New Madrid, Missouri (covered several states); tremendous upheavals in the Americas at time of the Crucifixion.
3. The name of a village not known in Joseph Smith's time. The Book of Mormon indicates that Lehi's family stopped by Nahom on their way to SE corner of Saudi Arabia. This name was only later found by archeologists. Joseph had very little education, he had no way for coming up with this village name (see http://www.fairlds.org/Book_of_Mormon/Arabia_and_the_Book_of_Mormon.html).
4. You should refrain from using the word "absolutely". It is unscientific.
The LDS will tell you to go with your burning in your heart or some such, when faced with solid evidence that the whole thing is bunko.
Millions of Mormons, including myself, have received a witness of the spirit. I have thought seriously about my experiences. I know that I cannot turn it "on and off" on my own and I know that this experience is separate from my emotions. All I can say is for you to follow the suggestion of the Savior in John 7:17 (obtain your witness by reading the Book of Mormon, you can get a complimentary copy by going to lds.org).
What does it mean to you that we were created in the IMAGE of God?
Primarily that we know the difference between good and evil.
This does not make sense. How does this relate to our appearance as "humanoids" with heads, arms, legs, etc? Good and Evil has to do with actions or choices, not appearance. When God created Adam and Eve, He made them to have the same form as His "appearance".
It is recorded in scripture that a number of prophets have talked with God “face to face” which indicates that God has an anthropomorphic appearance.
Or a burning bush. It would be something that man could see, could even be something familiar, but God is not contained by the burning bush or any other physical object.
God used the burning bush to draw Moses up the mountain so he could be alone with Him. But Moses most likely did not see God at first, he only heard His voice. Later, as he gained more experience and purification, he was permitted to see the face of God.
Also, it is recorded that God has feelings and passions and determination, which is further evidence of the Personhood for each member of the Godhead.
We anthropomorphize God. Full comprehension of God is always beyond any man. Attributing passions would necessitate and changing God. God is unchanging and not subject to passions.
There are numerous references in the Bible where God refers to Himself as having body parts (in the IMAGE of the humanoid):
Exodus 33:11,23
Isaiah 6:1
Amos 9:1
John 14:9 (the earthly appearance of Jesus is like that of Heavenly Father)
There are also numerous references that show God as having many kinds of strong feelings (passions both joyful and angry):
Exodus 32:10
Isaiah 65:2-3,19
It is quite disturbing that people would prefer to theorize of an abstract entity that has no feelings and did not create man in His IMAGE. Satan is delighted if he can hoodwink people into believing this which would cause them to become more alienated from God.
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