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To: coincheck
For all that think Free Will is the demonstration of how God chooses in His mercy, read Romans 9:

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Did you read that! Is is not of him (man) that wills: self will. It is not of him (man) that runs. BUT of God what sheweith mercy.

People, what is mercy? If I perform some act of goodness by free will, then let's say, God chooses me; then my goodness has caused God, in eternity past, to choose me; this choice is not out of mercy! Mercy indicates that I did not deserve it. Oh but you'll say: well, you had other things you performed that were evil. Yes, In Adam, I was a sinner. But me performing some goodness does not constitute pure mercy on God's part: for if God chooses everyone who performed some act of goodness; then God has chosen based upon man that wills and man that runs to perform good works so that God will certainly make a good choose. Let's go back to Romans to see how this works:

Romans 9:20 Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

God is willing to show His wrath and to make His power known, endures the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction. And made known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory.

Hath not the potter [God] power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Who is making he clay? Who is making one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? If God, which He had afore (before) prepared unto glory, those vessels of mercy: how then does a man's free will participate in his choosing? God answers you thus: Romans 9:20 Shall the thing formed say to HIM THAT FORMED IT, Why hast thou made me thus?

If man can thus participate in his choosing, as the vessel of mercy, then man has participated in his [clay] forming, and if this is true [according to free will, it is], then we, as free willist, will find a problem with Scripture in Romans 9:15 I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Free will, then, makes these scripture verses a lie: making God a liar.

21 posted on 09/09/2010 7:33:21 AM PDT by bibletruth
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To: bibletruth
"For all that think Free Will is the demonstration of how God chooses in His mercy, read Romans 9:

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. "

"Free Will" is NOT "the demonstration of how God chooses in His mercy"; ie. it has nothing to do with "how God chooses in His mercy" and we can not "will" God to choose us. "Free Will" is God's gift to us, which allows us to freely choose to obey, disobey, heed, or ignore, (and which he already knows how we will choose).

"Free will, then, makes these scripture verses a lie: making God a liar.."

I believe that your reasoning is flawed, because it appears that you have "defined" man's "Free Will" as forcing a decision or choice upon God, thereby limiting God's own "Free Will".

I'm pretty sure that this definition does not exist anywhere in any Christian teachings or theology, nor in the Holy Bible. (I may be wrong - I have been, before, LOL.)

44 posted on 09/09/2010 11:43:25 AM PDT by RebelTex (FREEDOM IS EVERYONE'S RIGHT! AND EVERYONE'S RESPONSIBILITY!)
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