The Doctrine of Temple Work (Mormonism - Open)

Ensign ^ | October 2003 | Elder David E. Sorensen

[ejonesie22]

Since even a Mormon seems to have issues with the varying visions, you may want to also inform the lurkers that while your “links” will have the official version, even internally there is debate about it.

Which leads one to ask, if they are lurking, how come a prophet of god can't keep his own story straight and why would I follow that guy?

BTW an interesting sight that Zilla brings us lurkers and friends, Think Mormon.

Read the about page here:

http://www.mormonthink.com/whoarewe.htm

Seems the “issues” PD keeps saying are “answered” and old and tired have gotten their sleep and are wide awake even for those still going through the motions of being LDS for familiar or social reasons...

Not that I want to say the PD is "misrepresenting" things (really since he basically says nothing that is a "given")

But a bunch of Mormons don't follow all the history and such that the LDS higher ups swear by? Hum...

[ejonesie22]

Since even a Mormon seems to have issues with the varying visions, you may want to also inform the lurkers that while your “links” will have the official version, even internally there is debate about it.

Which leads one to ask, if they are lurking, how come a prophet of god can't keep his own story straight and why would I follow that guy?

BTW an interesting sight that Zilla brings us lurkers and friends, Think Mormon.

Read the about page here:

http://www.mormonthink.com/whoarewe.htm

Seems the “issues” PD keeps saying are “answered” and old and tired have gotten their sleep and are wide awake even for those still going through the motions of being LDS for familiar or social reasons...

Not that I want to say the PD is "misrepresenting" things (really since he basically says nothing that is a "given")

But a bunch of Mormons don't follow all the history and such that the LDS higher ups swear by? Hum...

[Godzilla]

Lurkers, it is important to note that the car salesman is extending his usual pitch. What he WON’T tell you is that the link is to only ONE of NINE different and contradictory accounts of the so-called “first vision” THAT SMITH HIMSELF originated.
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Old and tired non-issue addressed a thousand times.

Lurkers - does the car saleman even address the point? No, just goes back to the same, worn out sales pitch hoping you won't notice. In fact, he doesn't even come close to addressing it - why? Because the car salesman realizes that a true investigator will not stop with just one side's story - particularly if that one side gains to benefit from the sale - but reads the reviews. So the out classed salesman tries to just ignore the truth by brandishing the 'addressed a thousand times' excuse, which is really just demagogy. Over their head, car salesmen believe they don't need to produce any arguments against the original statement, knowing that they can't refute it.

Lurkers, don't accept the sales pitch without checking independent sources - not those who want your 10%.

[Logophile]

The fact that you are LDS probably has a little to do with that, don’t you think?

No doubt.

Of course, the argument cuts both ways. Those who insist that Mormonism is not Christian are usually not LDS.

[MHGinTN]

That is a great resource site.

[Logophile]

Are you already a Mormon?

Yes.

[MHGinTN]

Yup, if the current push to appear just another more accurate form of Christianity continues, even the Lorenzo Snow couplet will get tossed and Mormons will just shift to defending the exclusion. Gordon B. HInckley hinted that the Snow couplet (asserting that 'as We are now, the mormon god once was, and as the mormon god is, we may become', know by non-Mormons as the heresies that god the Father was once a mana nd that mormons can become gods, too) is about to get repudiated, when he stated 'unequivocally' that he wasn't sure they teach that but he was familiar with the philosophy of it, during a Time Magazine interview a couple of years before his death. Of course, when the 1994 General Conference occurred, Hinckley knew the couplet so wee that he affirmed it to the entire of mormondom:

From the 1994 LDS Conference report, Hinckley addressing the conference:
“On the other hand, the whole design of the gospel is to lead us onward and upward to greater achievement, even, eventually, to godhood. This great possibility was enunciated by the Prophet Joseph Smith in the King Follet sermon (see Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 342-62) and emphasized by President Lorenzo Snow. It is this grand and incomparable concept: As God now is, man may become! (See The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, comp. Clyde J. Williams, Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1984, p. 1)

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[Vendome]

Here, let me clear up my true intent.

I am investigating LDS and trying to understand it in the same way I understand Judaism or Catholicism.

That in and of itself doesn’t make me Anti anyone if I don’t join.

But you know you guys always pull your contrived “I am suspicious of your intent” crap. Yes, I used that word on this thread.

If your religion is so true, you zip, nada, nothing to be in fear of.

I never met Christians, like you, who are in fear of anyone questioning their faith.

If your faith in your faith is strong enough, then it is all you need.

But, extant to your existence is that “Christians” who have been absolutely railed against by your many prophet is that we are in a failed “system” or we are flawed when compared to LDS.

So there are levels of Christianity? As in “I am holier than thou”?

How do you expect people to respond when they hear that?

I mean, the truth of the matter is “equivocation” seems to me one of the many hallmarks of your beliefs and manipulation your favorite tool.

You are suspicious because I asked a question or question LDS?

Man, I don’t know about you but, anyone can ask me anything about being a Christian and I will smile all day long. Even when they are atheists or Jewish and think this whole Christianity thing is a bunch of mumbo jumbo to them.

Heck, they can even paint a picture of Mary and throw elephant dung on it, wait for it to dry and get top billing at the Guggenheim for all I care.

Even that causes me no offense.

Some people are validated by offending others, while others think they have some sort of cross to bear and through their manufactured and synthetic offense are validated in their invented stigmata.

I really don’t get where you are coming from. “I am suspicious...”. Is that suppose to make me more genteel in my questioning so I don’t offend you or more pliant your own authority?

Guess you feel you are better than others but whatever Dude.

Only you could presume to be better than other’s in God’s eyes and actually find that an endeavor God approves of.

Ridiculous.

You ain’t a bad guy and ain’t a good guy, we’re just two guys.

Oh, and my response would have been completely different and just questions but your arrogant presumption of suspicion.

I am the “Investigator” you are already converted.

[MHGinTN]

If I already knew that I had forgotten. It saddens me to learn this about you, especially with the nature of your chosen screen name. Jesus is the Wrod made flesh Who dwelt among us, Who was with God in the beginning and Was God. (John chapter One) Momronism blasphemes with their claim that god was once a man and became god because a council of gods appointed him, then he sired billions of spirit children, including jesus and Lucifer. That you would believe such rot is very saddening.

[greyfoxx39]

I wouldn’t want to say you are wrong but your insistence as part of your doctrine says all others are wrong and worshiping in a state of apostasy.

We didn’t say it. God did. I guess he didn’t mind that you might be offended. He’d rather you listen up.

[Tennessee Nana]

the hosts of the dead, both small and great...an innumerable company of the spirits of the just (D&C 138:11-12) — and these spirits were just waiting for Mormon missionaries to come their way to be redeemed
_____________________________________________________

When Jesus saw this type of thing He cast them out...

The mormons play around with them and honor them..

The dead are gone from this Earth once they die...there are no such things as “ghosts” of the dead departed humans...

What Joey Smith and his followers have seen (if they “see” anything) are demons and devils...We know that Brigham Young listened to devils...

“Well, these evil spirits are ready to prompt you. Do they prompt us? Yes, and I could put my hands on a dozen of them while I have been on this stand; they are here on the stand; Could we do without the devils? No, we could not get along without them. They are here, and they suggest this, that, and the other.” Brigham Young, JoD, 3:369, June 22, 1856

[blasater1960]

Man, I don’t know about you but, anyone can ask me anything about being a Christian and I will smile all day long. Even when they are atheists or Jewish and think this whole Christianity thing is a bunch of mumbo jumbo to them.

Good thing! Because when I see these threads all I see is that Mormonism is a cult off-shoot of Christianity and Christianity is a cult off-shoot of Judaism!

Mormonism would never teach that man can progress to god status if it werent for Jesus being a man-god in Christianity. And Christianity has it's own pagan beliefs such as a memorial meal of eating the flesh and drinking the blood of the savior. The Mysteries Mithras' faithful celebrated a sacred meal. So did followers of Adonis, Attis, Osiris, and other Pagan Gods of the Mystery Religions.

Likewise the virgin birth is also pagan. Virgin birth is also from Krishna, Buddah, Dionysus and Horus.

Jesus is also a human sacrifice which is pagan and forbidden by Torah.

Jesus is a human vicarious atonement, also forbidden by Torah.

Jesus, even if he could have been a sacrifice, was not sacrificed according to Torah. His throat was not slit (he died from suffocation), his blood was not sprinkled on the altar, his innards and fat not burned on the altar. He in no way met the criteria of "sin sacrifice".

So, mormonism is wrong but christianity is just as wrong, from the Jewish (Original Gospel) point of view.

[ShadowAce]

He in no way met the criteria of "sin sacrifice".

That's because He wasn't.

Read Genesis 15. The covenant between God and Abram. being Jewish, I'm sure you understand the ramifications of breaking a covenant. Now--why do you think God made Abram fall asleep and not actually take part in the covenant ceremony?

[Paragon Defender]

Calling God arrogant isn’t such a smart thing to do friend.

[Paragon Defender]

You are suspicious because I asked a question or question LDS?

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It was the manner in which it was phrased. And your continued antogonistic tone makes me think I was right.

[Paragon Defender]

Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There’s an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the “quotation” the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn’t been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That’s a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don’t think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Sometimes they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever “issue” they seem to be “revealing” or “exposing”. I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the “ahah” moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there’s nothing new here. It’s all been addressed many times before.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the “issues” brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here’s more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the “you never address our points” posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won’t know will you?

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both “sides”. Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

PD

[ShadowAce]

Or..you go just go to one place that has everything you need

[greyfoxx39]

Calling God arrogant isn’t such a smart thing to do friend.

Since it appears you don't understand, the arrogance is in the mormon claim that they speak FOR God...but I guess the mormon-god-who-was-once-a-man, is OK with your putting words in his mouth.

[Elsie]

*Oliver Cowdery describes these events thus:

“These were days never to be forgotten—to sit under the sound of a voice dictated by the inspiration of heaven, awakened the utmost gratitude of this bosom!

Day after day I continued, uninterrupted, to write from his mouth, as he translated with the Urim and Thummim, or, as the Nephites would have said, ‘Interpreters,’ the history or record called ‘The Book of Mormon.’

[Elsie]

Lurkers, read this account. It really happened.

And; you can ask all the questions you want about why the hill has NEVER been investigated or an archeologoical dig performed there...