Posted on 10/31/2010 11:59:22 AM PDT by RnMomof7
In Christ Alone lyrics
Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;
In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand
In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save
?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live
There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ
That is not what th Church teaches. The hymen was closed even after birth. Compare John 20:19.
I'm sure He was born like any other human baby
Strong argument there. YOU are sure? Thanks.
You guys claim you won't know if you are saved til you meet Jesus face to face at the final judgment...
In which case, in your religion, Catholics go to purgatory and may still end up in Hell...
No it doesn't, because it says that we should walk in them. We are not clockworks, we choose how to "walk".
What you suggest is Calvinist heresy not found in any scripture. The Gospel is full of calls to good works. If they were programmed into us and as you say "accomplished by God the Son and imputed to us", none of the exhortations would be there. Read the scripture, "doctor", not Calvin the charlatan.
Mary in 15:40 is the mother of the sons James, and Joseph. She is not Mary the Mother of God -- obviously since the Evangelist descrbing the crucifixion of Jesus would not omit the only relevant relation of that Mary, to Jesus, were that true. Neither is she necessarily a sister of Mary. She is some kid on relative also named Mary.
thus you need to accept the idea that Joseph and Mary had other sons after her first[because of the phrasing of Mt 1:24-25]
Firstborn applies to any first child regardless of whether any other follow. "έως" does not necessarily mean "up till that time but not subsequently". It can simply mean "surely up to this day, and what happens after I have no comment". For example, in the text by the same Evangelist, we read "the field was called Haceldama, that is, The field of blood, even to [eos] this day" (Mt 27:8). Surely St. Matthew did not mean to imply that as soon as the ink is dry the field will be renamed.
The focus in all Nativity narratives is the miraculous birth of Christ. The focus is therefore on the absence of intercourse prior to His birth. The narrator has no comment and does not wish to distract us with what went on later between them.
Because firstborn has a legal significance in Hebrew law: it means he is dedicated to God. Being only son is of no such significance.
“That is not what th Church teaches. The hymen was closed even after birth. Compare John 20:19.”
Compare it to what?
“Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.” (John 20:19)
Why is it a "fact"? Because Belteshazzar says it is?
You are right. However, it was just like Latin in the Catholic Church. The LXX did replace the Hebrew in Greek-speaking Jewish communities in Alexandria and Asia Minor between the 3rd and 2nd century BC.
To show that the word means victim sacrifice or victim offering, which is different from other types of offerings. Thysia/zhertva is used when an innocent dies, because a death of an innocent is unjust, no matter what reason, and an innocent offered to be slaughtered for the sins of others is a victim.
It makes no difference if the innocent volunteered to be killed for someone else. The principle of injustice is still there and so is the victimhood.
Other types of offerings do not involve slaughter of an innocent and therefore there is no victim. I gave you examples of such, namely prosphora and or voznesheniye (also prinosheniye) in Slavonic, along with Eph 5:2 where both type of offerings appear in the same verse.
However, English does not differentiate, but Greek does. And now you are using English to "correct" Greek, as if Greek were the translation of English instead of vice versa! Amazing.
Would you say "...they gave a grain sacrifice to God" or "...they gave a grain victim to God"?
Grain is not an innocent living being that must die for the wrongdoing of others. If you think that Christ deserved to die, then I suppose his offering was just because he got what he "deserved".
The differentiation between thysia and anaphora is that one is tragic and the other one is not. The subtlety that is lost in translations eventually led to a distorted picture which, after centuries, steered the west to "understand" that Christ's death was the ultimate "justice" satisfying to God—a complete opposite of the original Christian understanding of it as the ultimate injustice.
Yes, according to God who is being quoted in Deuteronomy 30:14 (KJV) as saying "you can do it." Or do you think God is teasing when he says "be holy, for I am holy" or "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect"?
So what do we do now? Go with Paul or with God? God says you can and Paul says you can't. Who's lying?
The purpose of the law, the purpose of the call to be Holy as God is Holy is to show us our need for a Savior
If the law is there to show us that we need a Savior as you say, then why does the Old Testament say that the Law is to be observed forever? And how can something that is eternal be "fulfilled?"
And what's the purpose of Christ's saying "be therefore perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect" if he didn't think it can't be done?
Gal 3:24...Rom 3:20...
Pau, Paul and more Paul. That is the Protestant religion: Paul. Paul, a mere human, trumps God. Amazing.
You have done enough when you die and go to heaven. There is no quota to fill. One must examine his conscience for the motive, and at times indeed there is room for doubt; Christ, however, knows your soul and knows your motivation. It is important to go about your day prayerfully, and then whatever it is you do becomes sanctifying work. It is not complicated, if you have the simple faith of a child (Mt 18:4). Also, study the lives of the saints. They, somehow managed to get "done enough". So study what they did and imitate them.
So the "good news" according to Rome is,
Not only are we bound to the law (Acts 15:10 which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?),
but we must also add good works to sanctify our own souls, to achieve(with "grace") our own justification in which the soul merits (is pleasing) entrance to heaven
AND confess to a priest for forgiveness of sin, recieve the Eucharist for a grace booster to maintain a "state of grace",
AND pray to Mary and the saints to beg Jesus for mercy(cause Lord knows He is such a stickler) to push us over the edge AND/OR push others out of fire of purgatory.
AND assent to ALL dogma including recent Ex Cathedra statements AND (more importantely) submit to any and all future dictates from the Pope(hopefully, there is just one).
I am not sure I see the "good" in this news.
Or "ὑπόστασις"...
There are two types of firstborns in the Jewish law, one is paternal lineage, having to do with inheritance rights, and the second one is maternal, having to do with offering. The former is not at all limited to the ordinal position but can change (i.e. can be forfeited, such as in Esau's case). The carrier of the designation "firstborn" gets twice the inheritance of the other brothers. The latter has to do with purity. See Encyclopedia Judaica on "firstborn" topic.
“So study what they did and imitate them.”
Actually according to Hebrews 13:7 it is their FAITH that we are imitate as we observe how their conduct turns out.
And studying the live of faithful Christians, “saints”, in one thing, worshiping them and purported relics is quite another.
The Catholic/Orthodox Church teaches that Christ was born supernaturally just as he was conceived supernaturally, and just as Mary's conception did not violate her virignity, neither did Christ's birth. Alex was using John 10:19 to show that Jesus could enter (and exit) supernaturally (through solid objects) as he enetered the room with the doors shut.
“The Catholic/Orthodox Church teaches that Christ was born supernaturally just as he was conceived supernaturally, and just as Mary's conception did not violate her virignity, neither did Christ's birth.”
More tales from the apocrypha and “since he could do anything he did this and such because he could”.
The scriptures prove with their every word that the “catholic” church is not of Christ, but his adversary!
Heed the word of God and “come out from her.”
.
We are not clockworks, we choose how to "walk".
So the clock makes itself and decides how to function?
The Gospel is full of calls to good works. If they were programmed into us and as you say "accomplished by God the Son and imputed to us", none of the exhortations would be there.
And those calls go out to all the world. Who responds in faith which is the only marker of salvation? Those whom God first regenerates by the Holy Spirit to repent of their sins, to obey God and to do the good works of Christ within them.
Read the scripture, "doctor", not Calvin the charlatan.
Well, "Anna," I thank God for His word which is superior to men and their doctrines, unlike Rome which elevates tradition above Scripture, as RC apologists have told us on this very thread.
This is a very interesting statement to me because you seem to presuppose a dichotomy between faith and reason, protraying faith as irrational, blind, or absurd, and opposed to reason. But faith is not only thoroughly reasonable, it is the very foundation of reason because reason itself would be impossible without it.
All that is necessary to illustrate that faith is the precondition of reason is to ask you, do you have evidence for everything that you believe? How would that even be possible for a finite creature? Not even skeptics like you can proceed intellectually without certain assumptions or prove everything you believe by independent demonstration.
If you are implying that Christianity is irrational simply on the basis that it allows for something to be accepted without independent demonstration, then you end up refuting yourself because you inconsistently require something of Christian believers that you do not and cannot live up to yourself. If you required objective evidence for everything that you believe it would make knowledge of anything whatsoever impossible for a finite being, which ironically ends up being very unreasonable.
Moreover, your claim that there is no objective evidence really entails a claim of omniscience, since you would have to have had to have searched everywhere and looked at all things at the same time to be able to make the claim, at least according to a presupposed standard of not believing anything unless there is independent, objective evidence for it.
If God subsists (and He does) and has revealed Himself in His Word then we are entitled to believe Him on His authority, His authority being proper justification and ground for our belief that His Word is sufficient, as it claims.
The bottom line is that to criticize the Christian's irrational "faith" on the grounds that "there is no objective evidence" for it is itself nothing more than an expression of a different religious faith - a faith in which you presume the ultimate authority and self-sufficiency of your own finite human mind instead of the ultimate authority and self-sufficiency of the infinite God, a presumption that cannot help but result in futility, arbitrariness and irrationality.
Cordially,
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