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To: boatbums
You may very well be right, but can I have chapter and verse where Jesus calls him an apostle, thats what I want to find....I know the 12 were to go only to the Jews and Paul to the gentiles, but I am stuck on Paul giving himself the name apostle....If you give me chapter and verse, I will be satisfied, and have a biblical answer to my question, there were 12 tribes in Israel and 12 apostle's, Paul makes it 13 and I don't think that is in scripture, I may be wrong, but want to find out....thanks

And quoting Paul is not valid for me to find where God said Saul, who he called by a new name Paul, but I want where in scripture He calls him an apostle..

100 posted on 11/01/2010 1:19:59 AM PDT by goat granny
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To: goat granny
And quoting Paul is not valid for me to find where God said Saul, who he called by a new name Paul, but I want where in scripture He calls him an apostle..

If you know the story of Saul/Paul, then you know he was not a believer in Christ until after Jesus ascended to heaven. The record we have starts in Acts - which is widely believed to have been written by Luke. Acts 9 describes Saul's conversion. Luke would, of course, be saying what Paul related to him concerning the experience. This is what Paul says Jesus said to him:

Acts 9:5-6
5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

We are also told the testimony of a man named Ananias who Jesus appeared to in a vision. He told Ananias:

Acts 9:11-12
11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

Anaias was worried about what he was being told to do since Saul was a known persecutor of Christians. The Lord then told Ananias:

Acts 9:15-16
15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

Barnabas was greatly impressed with the work Saul was doing in the name of Jesus and he personally brought him to the apostles to introduce him:

Acts 9:26-28
26 When he came to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him, not believing that he really was a disciple. 27 But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles. He told them how Saul on his journey had seen the Lord and that the Lord had spoken to him, and how in Damascus he had preached fearlessly in the name of Jesus. 28 So Saul stayed with them and moved about freely in Jerusalem, speaking boldly in the name of the Lord.

Barnabus then worked together with Saul in Antioch:

Acts 11:25-26
25 Then Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, 26 and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.

When Paul and Barnabus were in Iconium they spoke boldly for the Lord, who "confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to do miraculous signs and wonders." Acts 14:3. This caused division among the people in that city who we are told, "Some sided with the Jews, others with the apostles." Acts 14:4. Paul was later referred to as an "apostle" in Acts 14:14. Paul and Barnabus also appointed elders in the churches.

When Paul was speaking to the crowd in Jerusalem and retold his experience on the road to Damascus, he said the Lord said to him:

Acts 22:21
21 “Then the Lord said to me, ‘Go; I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’ ”

When Paul was testifying to King Agrippa, he said the Lord said to him:

Acts 26:15-18
15 “Then I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’
“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

So, we have the words of Luke, Saul/Paul, Barnabus, Peter, James and Jesus stating that Paul was sent by the Lord himself to the Gentiles. All the other disciples and Apostles were convinced, so I am, too. The Lord would not have allowed Paul's epistles to be included as Holy Scripture if he was a fake.

170 posted on 11/01/2010 11:38:13 AM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: goat granny
You may very well be right, but can I have chapter and verse where Jesus calls him an apostle, thats what I want to find....I know the 12 were to go only to the Jews and Paul to the gentiles, but I am stuck on Paul giving himself the name apostle....If you give me chapter and verse, I will be satisfied, and have a biblical answer to my question, there were 12 tribes in Israel and 12 apostle's, Paul makes it 13 and I don't think that is in scripture, I may be wrong, but want to find out....thanks And quoting Paul is not valid for me to find where God said Saul, who he called by a new name Paul, but I want where in scripture He calls him an apostle..

Your denial of the Apostleship of Paul does not seem to me to make much sense.

You are also in error about the inconsistent number of Jewish tribes as compared to the number of Apostles as they are quite consistent.

Though the ideal number is twelve of the tribes, on certain occasions when that the tribe of Joseph is split for some specific reason under the guidance of God there is thirteen as the counting of Paul would make thirteen apostles.

The fact that he was a specially chosen vessel is very plainly made in a number of places,by Jesus in Acts 9 and by God in Acts 22:14, and witnessed by Ananias who was visited by Jesus Of Nazareth In Acts 22:8.

Now I know that God/Jesus does not call Paul an Apostle but that Is being a little picky don't you think.

Paul says that he is one and his writing is under the guiding influence of the Holy Spirit the third person of the Holy Trinity, which by the way is not mentioned in the Bible either,so if he is not an apostle the he is a liar and "the truth is not in him " and we would have to disregard every thing he wrote,said and done.

This would eliminate most all of the New Testament especially the church of the Gentiles both past and present, it's organization and it's doctrines.

It would also reflect badly on the rest called the beloved brother and Peter himself affirmed his writings.

I guess what really bothers me about your statement that you won't accept Paul's word under the influence of the Holy Spirit (Who is God by the way) but you require that God say he is an Apostle is very unfair and unreasonable.

Because you see God nor Jesus never called Peter or any of the other twelve apostles either but they like Paul, called themselves apostles ( see 1Peter 1:1, 2 Peter 2:1)

3,653 posted on 11/30/2010 1:30:53 AM PST by mississippi red-neck (You will never win the war on terrorism by fighting it in Iraq and funding it in the West Bank.)
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