A total misconstruing of what I said. You are disappointing me. I stated that the "taking up of our cross and following" Christ does not mean that we do this to pay for our own sins since that is what he did for us ON HIS CROSS. I, in no way, implied that the cross we take up is a lazy, hazy day at the beach. When we take up our cross we submit to his will and bear with joy whatever suffering we encounter for the cause of Christ in the world. It is those who trash the work of our Lord who believe that their own "suffering", be it persecution or a toothache, a firing squad or a hairshirt, can in any way be compared or replicate what he suffered for our sakes. Some of the followers of your religion even went so far as to beat their own bodies bloody mistakenly thinking that they had to manufacture at least a semblance of suffering or they wouldn't be holy enough or good enough to merit everlasting life! How totally grievous and condescending to the real purpose of the cross. We certainly should take up our cross but he sure didn't mean we also got crucified on it to please him.
Paul certainly spoke of his drive to win the lost to Christ and he disciplined himself so that his life and the way he led it could never be used as an excuse for the unsaved to reject the gospel. But NOOOO, that explanation isn't good enough for y'all, instead it is twisted into some surreal masochistic behavior done not for sexual pleasure but to somehow please a sadomasochistic God who simply giggles with delight when his children scream out in pain. Just what kind of God is it that you all are trying to sell us anyway? A God of LOVE or a God of gleeful rapture over human sacrifice? And it's "Protestants" that teach a God of hate??? Please don't insult us with that drivel.
I think you are both talking past each other. All three of us agree that Christ’s sacrifice is what saved us and we can not save ourselves. Just as the thorn in +Paul’s flesh, so too is our taking up our cross.
It sure sounded like it.
When we take up our cross we submit to his will and bear with joy whatever suffering we encounter for the cause of Christ in the world. It is those who trash the work of our Lord who believe that their own "suffering", be it persecution or a toothache, a firing squad or a hairshirt, can in any way be compared or replicate what he suffered for our sakes. Some of the followers of your religion even went so far as to beat their own bodies bloody mistakenly thinking that they had to manufacture at least a semblance of suffering or they wouldn't be holy enough or good enough to merit everlasting life! How totally grievous and condescending to the real purpose of the cross. We certainly should take up our cross but he sure didn't mean we also got crucified on it to please him.
I'm not even sure how to approach this; it is so wrong on so many levels. I would simply approach you with the examples of Christians from the first six centuries that willingly were martyred for their Christianity in the Colisseum, in the pagan kings' arenas and bringing Christianity to the pagan world of the East, all the way through recent times, including Fr. Jean de Brebeuf being martyred by the Algonquins and Fr. Damien martyring himself tending to the lepers in Hawaii. If your faith is shallow and self serving, then you may wish to consider their examples.
Paul certainly spoke of his drive to win the lost to Christ and he disciplined himself so that his life and the way he led it could never be used as an excuse for the unsaved to reject the gospel. But NOOOO, that explanation isn't good enough for y'all, instead it is twisted into some surreal masochistic behavior done not for sexual pleasure but to somehow please a sadomasochistic God who simply giggles with delight when his children scream out in pain. Just what kind of God is it that you all are trying to sell us anyway? A God of LOVE or a God of gleeful rapture over human sacrifice? And it's "Protestants" that teach a God of hate??? Please don't insult us with that drivel.
I'm disappointed in your post right here. It is not masochism - it is the drive to submit self to Christ. We are all called on to imitate Christ and to become the least. You cannot do that if your overriding whims drive your actions. The God of Love tells us to love others, not ourselves. You cannot love others if you put yourself above all others. Perhaps a rereading of the Beatitudes might help.