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To: Kolokotronis

Faith has a basis unlike credulity.
Damascus makes the statement, “.......supernaturally changed by the invocation and presence of the Holy Spirit into the Body and Blood of Christ, and are not two, but one and the same.”

Upon what basis? The words of Christ? Then the Christ is law breaker and his disciples as well.
By divine inspiration? Does Damascus claim such? Are his words more inspiried than the Gospels?

A simple meal of remembrance, and remembrance was its stated purpose, becomes by retrospective elaboration into a mysterious, throw up the hands—no one can understand this! ritual due to insistance that “is” can only mean one thing despite evidence to the contrary.

I don’t ask for proof but simply consistancy with God’s own word.


5,909 posted on 12/27/2010 9:03:41 AM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change
"...a mysterious, throw up the hands—no one can understand this! ritual due to insistance that “is” can only mean one thing despite evidence to the contrary."

Do you know how the Holy Spirit works? Does your theology set limits on what our Triune God can do? As for "evidence to the contrary", other than the "translations" of propagandists and liars, what "evidence" do you have for your innovative, Western, modernist position? It's modern origin lies in Zwingli's comic book theology that God can't be in two places at once. That, cyc, is a fact. No Christians, before Zwingli believed what you claim to believe. Outside of Christianity, the heresy is much older. In fact, +Ignatius of Antioch, around 100, warned the Christians at Smyrna about groups, not Christians but rather others who followed Simon Magus and any of a number of Gnostic preachers (and even some who claimed to follow +John the Bapstist)who denied the Real Presence:

"Consider how contrary to the mind of God are the heterodox in regard to the grace of God which has come to us. They have no regard for charity, none for the widow, the orphan, the oppressed, none for the man in prison, the hungry or the thirsty. They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not admit that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, the flesh which suffered for our sins and which the Father, in His graciousness, raised from the dead."

"I don’t ask for proof but simply consistancy with God’s own word."

No you don't, cyc. 2000 years of Christianlife has, in overwhelming numbers, accepted the words of Christ as establishing that the bread and wine on the altar table become truly the Body and Blood of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. For 1900 years we have been warned against those who do not. What you want is for submission of Christians to what a tiny, virtually 100% American version of Protestantism holds about the Real Presence. I can assure you that Orthodoxy feels no need at all to convert you to our way of thinking and believing. What we have is available to you. If you reject it, that really is OK with us.

5,912 posted on 12/27/2010 10:05:55 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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