You know, metmom, being obtuse is an option not an obligation. For someone who claims to have been a Catholic your comments sometimes suggest otherwise.
The liturgy, whether you call it the Mass (Catholic) or the Divine Liturgy (Orthodox) is the reenactment of the Mystery (aka the Last) Supper, as per Jesus' own words. Someone has to make the offering., someone other than the congregation, because Jesus was not "one of the guys" but set apart, commissioned.
The Church sets apart (ordains) people who "hear the call" as the ones who make the bloodless offering instead of Jesus personally, in place of Christ, as an icon of Christ.
That priest, however, is still human, sinful and in need of the Savior and Christ's offer applies to him too..."Eat, all of you, this is my Body..." The priest offers and partakes. What's so offensive, difficult to comprehend or funny about it?
Why do Protestants wave their hands in the air like those Khalimar worshipers in "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom"? Are they making sure God "sees" them? Trying to get his attention?
This is just an illustration how easy it is to ridicule something. I hope the Protestants have a better explanation.
Oh WOW....this is just way over the line of Christianity!can you not see what your own words are saying? In stating this you are seriously implying the catholic church ordains saviors other than Christ...."Instead of Jesus". ..or at the very least become their own savior.
I don't know. You'll have to ask them. Maybe they're just being obedient.....
1 Timothy 2:8 I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling;
Bloodless offering? Really?
Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins.
If it's a bloodless offering, then why teach that the cup becomes the blood of Christ?
And *offering*????
The priest is offering Christ? Jesus laid down His life of His own accord. Nobody took it from him. Nobody offered Him on an altar as if He were some kind of animal to be slaughtered several times a day in the mass.
Hebrews 10 1For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. 2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? 3But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
5Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,
"Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; 6in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. 7Then I said, 'Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.'"
8When he said above, "You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings" (these are offered according to the law), 9then he added, "Behold, I have come to do your will." He does away with the first in order to establish the second. 10And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
15And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,"
17then he adds,
"I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more."
18Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.
The whole priesthood and sacrifice of the mass goes against Scripture, as does so much Catholic doctrine.
Humm-mmm. I'd guess some are more excitable or uninhibited enough to feel free to do that. I don't have a problem with others doing so as I think there are some who are sincerely worshipping Christ in that way...but I do think it can be distracting for those who don't do so..I am one who doesn't. Still there is a time and place where rejoicing in the Lord is acceptable. Christ accepts that as scripture clearly shows....nothing to do with traditions...some churches do...others don't..and some do both and all in between.
In regard to raising of hands....
Romans 14
1As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11for it is written,
“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”
12So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not pass judgment on one another any longer, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother. 14I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself, but it is unclean for anyone who thinks it unclean. 15For if your brother is grieved by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. By what you eat, do not destroy the one for whom Christ died. 16 So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking but of righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18Whoever thus serves Christ is acceptable to God and approved by men. 19So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.
20 Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. 21 It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble. 22The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves. 23But whoever has doubts is condemned if he eats, because the eating is not from faith. For whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.
Well, when you make it all up as you go along and invent your daily beliefs before you get breakfast, you'd want to get somebody's attention. And, when you have to make it all up, very often you simply get it wrong and just as often, ludicrously wrong...
