First Council of Nicaea

tertullian.org ^

[T Minus Four]

Resty, none of the links work. I was dying to know what the definition of a “heretic” is.

[Elsie]

There seem to be a number of legends about the First Council of Nicaea (325AD) in circulation on the internet, presented as fact.

Would you believe that there are 6, 8-9 various accounts of Joseph Smith's 'vision' as well!

And that wasn't NEARLY as long ago as Nicea!

[Elsie]

There seem to be a number of legends about the First Council of Nicaea (325AD) in circulation on the internet, presented as fact.

Would you believe that there are MORMONs who ACCEPT JS' words on things, with NO evidence at ALL???

Like...

"Mother; I have learned that PRESBYTERIANiusm is not true."

[Elsie]

this is (a) report on history and your problem is what?

Burn THIS into your memory, Sister; for these HAteful and Bigoted ANTI-MORMONs will use it on you with a VENGENCE in the future!

--MormonDude(And we love them so much it HURTS!)

[Elsie]

what point are you trying to make???

Good Luck!

[Elsie]

 

Does this mean that you as a mormon are going to stop misrepresenting the events around Nicea.

Creeds is FUN!

 

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The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

 

 

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
   
2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
   
3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
   
4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
   
6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
   
7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
   
8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
   
9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
   
10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
    
11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
    
12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
    
13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

Joseph Smith

Creeds is FUN!

[Elsie]

freak

Is your GameBoy® broken?

[Elsie]

Why did christians start eating pig meat anyway?

Uh...

The answer is found in your BIBLE.

The one source Paragon Defender does NOT link to.

[Elsie]

You’re talking in circles.

I see that you and PD graduated together...

[Elsie]

Thank you for the additional references, Analog

And THIUS; PD; is how you do it if you RFEALLY want folks to become educated.

[Elsie]

Thank you for the additional references, Analog

And THIS; PD; is how you do it if you RFEALLY want folks to become educated.

[Elsie]

 

This month’s Mormon Word is “YAMMERING”.

Are you SURE??

 

I have another PostIt® around here that had a couple of words that were in contention for being November's word; but YAMMERING wasn't one of them.

 

And; I haven't gotten the Official Word yet from SLC; so all I can do is to use Octobers!

 

 

WHAT are those guys being so SLOW about???

 

 

Office of First President & Living Prophet®:

September 15th, 2010

The phrase for OCTOBER is -

It just fits the pattern.

 

[Elsie]

In one fell blow, she shatters lds arguements against Nicea

WHAT??!!

They actually have ARGUMENTS?

All that I've even see are mere CLAIMS that it was/is ABOMINABLE and so forth.

Do they actually pick it apart to show the supposed BAD things in it?

[Colofornian]

Resty, none of the links work. I was dying to know what the definition of a “heretic” is.

are these fixed yet?

[Elsie]

You are cruel to the max!

[Elsie]

 

So, Resty, at first glance, you're taking stuff that was originally mentioned in Islam and Atheist forums? Is that right?

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In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim,

“I will be to this generation a second Mohammed, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us—‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’ ”[1]

It is most interesting that a self-proclaimed Christian prophet would liken himself to Mohammed, the founder of Islam. His own comparison invites us to take a closer look as well. And when we do, we find some striking—and troubling—parallels. Consider the following.

· Mohammed and Joseph Smith both had humble beginnings. Neither had formal religious connections or upbringing, and both were relatively uneducated. Both founded new religions by creating their own scriptures. In fact, followers of both prophets claim these scriptures are miracles since their authors were the most simple and uneducated of men.[2]

· Both prophets claim of having angel visitations, and of receiving divine revelation to restore pure religion to the earth again. Mohammed was told that both Jews and Christians had long since corrupted their scriptures and religion. In like manner, Joseph Smith was told that all of Christianity had become corrupt, and that consequently the Bible itself was no longer reliable. In both cases, this corruption required a complete restoration of both scripture and religion. Nothing which preceded either prophet could be relied upon any longer. Both prophets claim they were used of God to restore eternal truths which once existed on earth, but had been lost due to human corruption.

· Both prophets created new scripture which borrowed heavily from the Bible, but with a substantially new “spin.” In his Koran, Mohammed appropriates a number of Biblical themes and characters—but he changes the complete sense of many passages, claiming to “correct” the Bible. In so doing he changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place. In like manner, Joseph Smith created the Book of Mormon, much of which is plagiarized directly from the King James Bible. Interestingly, the Book of Mormon claims that this same Bible has been substantially corrupted and is therefore unreliable. In addition, Joseph Smith went so far as to actually create his own version of the Bible itself, the “Inspired Version,” in which he both adds and deletes significant portions of text, claiming he is “correcting” it. In so doing he also changes many doctrines, introducing his own in their place.

· As a part of their new scriptural “spin,” both prophets saw themselves as prophesied in scripture, and both saw themselves as a continuation of a long line of Biblical prophets. Mohammed saw himself as a continuation of the ministry of Moses and Jesus. Joseph Smith saw himself as a successor to Enoch, Melchizedek, Joseph and Moses. Joseph Smith actually wrote himself into his own version of the Bible—by name.

· Both prophets held up their own scripture as superior to the Bible. Mohammed claimed that the Koran was a perfect copy of the original which was in heaven. The Koran is therefore held to be absolutely perfect, far superior to the Bible and superceding it. In like manner, Joseph Smith also made the following claim. “I told the Brethren that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding its precepts, than by any other book.”[3]

· Despite their claim that the Bible was corrupt, both prophets admonished their followers to adhere to its teachings. An obvious contradiction, this led to selective acceptance of some portions and wholesale rejection of others. As a result, the Bible is accepted by both groups of followers only to the extent that it agrees with their prophet’s own superior revelation.

· Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith taught that true salvation was to be found only in their respective religions. Those who would not accept their message were considered “infidels,” pagans or Gentiles. In so doing, both prophets became the enemy of genuine Christianity, and have led many people away from the Christ of the Bible.

· Both prophets encountered fierce opposition to their new religions and had to flee from town to town because of threats on their lives. Both retaliated to this opposition by forming their own militias. Both ultimately set up their own towns as model societies.

· Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith left unclear instructions about their successors. The majority of Mohammed’s followers, Sunni Muslims, believe they were to elect their new leader, whereas the minority, Shiite Muslims, believe Mohammed’s son was to be their next leader. Similarly, the majority of Joseph Smith’s followers, Mormons, believed their next prophet should have been the existing leader of their quorum of twelve apostles, whereas the minority, RLDS, believed Joseph Smith’s own son should have been their next prophet. Differences on this issue, and many others, have created substantial tension between these rival groups of each prophet.

· Mohammed taught that Jesus was just another of a long line of human prophets, of which he was the last. He taught that he was superior to Christ and superceded Him. In comparison, Joseph Smith also made the following claim.

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”[4]

 

Endnotes

[1] Joseph Smith made this statement at the conclusion of a speech in the public square at Far West, Missouri on October 14, 1838. This particular quote is documented in Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231. Fawn Brodie’s footnote regarding this speech contains valuable information, and follows. “Except where noted, all the details of this chapter [16] are taken from the History of the [Mormon] Church. This speech, however, was not recorded there, and the report given here is based upon the accounts of seven men. See the affidavits of T.B. Marsh, Orson Hyde, George M. Hinkle, John Corrill, W.W. Phelps, Samson Avard, and Reed Peck in Correspondence, Orders, etc., pp. 57–9, 97–129. The Marsh and Hyde account, which was made on October 24, is particularly important. Part of it was reproduced in History of the [Mormon] Church, Vol. III, p. 167. See also the Peck manuscript, p. 80. Joseph himself barely mentioned the speech in his history; see Vol. III, p. 162.”

[Elsie]

I'll be the first to comment on it: I'm against it.

 

Appears that SOME may have picked up on an obscure biblcal practice that is similar to being baptised for the dead.

 

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Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

Galatians 5:12
   As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

 

[Elsie]

LOL Wish I had more time today ping!

Too bad for you; as I am going to jump on the good lines first!

[Godzilla]

They actually have ARGUMENTS?

And it came to pass. . . . .

[Colofornian]

And it came to pass. . .

Ah, my "fave" BoM passages.

(Which one, you may ask?)

Why, all couple thou "it came to pass[es]"

Godzilla...think of a campfire with kids around...maybe Boy Scouts...maybe your own kids...
And yur tellin' ghost tales that yur makin' up on the spot...and ya toss it a meaningless phrase now & then...why? Well, ya need to "buy time" to think, "Where am I'm going to go next with this story?"

Well, that's what ole Joe needed...

There's some sections where "it came to pass" occurred just about every verse multiple verses in a row. Other times, nary a mention. Why the gaping gap?

Well, I would surmise that when it's not mentioned, those are the "dictations" that Ole Joe gave earlier in the morning...fresh after having a long weekend or at least overnight to think where the narrative would go.

The "it came to pass" heavy-handed sections of the Book of Mormon were the ones where either Joe failed to have his cup of Joe, or, were later in the afternoon or later evening when Joe's mind was nodding off.