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To: MEGoody

“Are you suggesting that every time we sin, we become “unsaved” and have to be “resaved”? Once again, that says to me we would be crucifying Christ over and over again.”

Nope, that’s not what I am suggesting. I have posted a number of scriptures now, and said plainly that the choice to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and follow His commandments is not the end of our freewill. I’ve asked you where you stood with your OSAS position, and you haven’t answered me. Do you believe that a Christian can lead a carnal life and still be saved, or do you believe that such a person was never saved at all. If you choose the former, the only allowance you make for freewill is a person’s original decision to be saved. After that, you might as well join the Calvinist puppet show, because accordingly, all scriptures saying a person who chooses to live in sin won’t enter the Kingdom of Heaven can no longer apply to those who have chosen to be an elite by believing in Jesus Christ.
If you choose the latter course, you give up on assurance of salvation because you don’t know who will fall and who won’t, including yourself, and therefore don’t know who is saved and who isn’t. I’ve listened to some wonderful Baptist preachers give their apologetics against Calvinism, only to wind up in this logical trap, usually without realizing what they have gotten themselves into.

Simply put, we can’t do anything within ourselves to achieve salvation, including religious works and deeds, circumcision, observing Sabbaths, animal sacrifices, chanting, whatever. There is no way to salvation except through Jesus Christ. That has been true for everyone since the day Adam sinned, but you know that. Were we differ is in our in our interpretation of salvation. Is it an event that happens at a certain point in time, a sort of existential experience with God that can’t be undone, no matter what we choose afterwards, or is the “sinner’s prayer” a beginning of saving faith and walking in God’s grace that doesn’t nullify our freewill and the consequences thereof? What I am saying is that salvation is a present tense experience that requires our continued faith and commitment to following the commandments of Jesus Christ. Does that mean that I am saying every time you sin you lose your salvation? Nope. It means that you can sin and go astray, and if you don’t repent, you will eventually be lost. When is up to God. When Paul spoke of not wanting to be given over to a reprobate mind, he wasn’t just talking gibberish to keep us inline. He knew that unless he ran the good race, he could be turned over to a reprobate mind. He also meant it when he said that God forbids grace being an excuse for sin to abound. Jesus explained as much with the parable of the wicked master who upon being forgiven for much refused to forgive his savant a much lesser debt. This was a Kingdom of Heaven parable, or should I say a getting into the Kingdom of Heaven teaching principle. God, the good master, gave forgiveness and took it back. Can you receive forgiveness if you choose not to forgive others? No! The Lord’s Prayer tells us as much. If God has forgiven you, and you follow him for awhile, but then choose not to forgive someone, perhaps a fellow brother in Christ who Jesus has commanded you to love, can you lose the grace you’ve been given? Unless Jesus was just spinning fiction to entertain us, you can. Can you be grafted back into the vine, or returned to the flock. I think scripture tells us you can, but your Hebrews passage, far from teaching OSAS, warns you against the ultimate consequence of turning your back on Jesus.


17 posted on 12/06/2010 1:38:41 PM PST by pallis
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To: pallis
Do you believe that a Christian can lead a carnal life and still be saved, or do you believe that such a person was never saved at all.

I believe a person who has been saved will have a changed life. They can temporarily slip in carnality, but they will be drawn back just as the prodigal was drawn back to his father. They don't lose their salvation when that happens, just as the prodigal did not lose sonship when he left. But we do lose fellowship with our Father, just as the prodigal did.

As to "carnal life", that can mean a lot of things. An awful lot of Christians struggle, sometimes all their lives, with one particular besetting sin. They can have a life bearing much fruit otherwise.

18 posted on 12/06/2010 2:12:49 PM PST by MEGoody (Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.)
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