Posted on 11/18/2010 2:12:23 AM PST by markomalley
ABC's "The View" hosted pastor Joel Osteen Tuesday, author of the book The Christmas Spirit – but the conversation took a controversial turn and went from Christmas to homosexuality. Co-host Joy Behar belittled Osteen about his conservative Christian beliefs on the matter.
ABC's Barbara Walters first popped the question in the middle of the interview, flagging it was a "controversial" topic. She referenced a previous quote made by Osteen on the show about homosexuality not being "God's best" for a person's life. Walters asked him how he felt about a Georgia pastor who recently came out and said he was gay.
After Osteen's tepid response, Behar interrupted him and flatly lectured him that homosexuality is natural. "It's not a choice, Pastor," she asserted. "It's not a choice, and therefore I don't think that God would look askance at homosexuality in that way, because it's not a choice. They're born this way, people are born this way."
[Video embedded within comment]
When Osteen tried to respond, the comedian-cum-theologian butted in again to assert that "the Christian church should embrace that notion." She later accused Osteen of being a part of the gay bullying problem, telling him that his Biblical interpretation of homosexuality leads to bullying.
"But when you say that the Bible is against gays, that makes people get bullied, and bad things happen to people because of what the people say about that," she told Osteen.
After Behar further interrupted the guest to make her point, Osteen defended his church's stance and said that it welcomes all sinners. "If you came to our church, Joy, you would see people from all walks of life," he explained. "We're for everybody, we're not against people."
"We're not for bullying," he added. "I mean, if you follow our ministry at all, we're for uplifting people. But there's the Scripture that we can't necessarily change."
Co-host Whoopi Goldberg also joined the debate, quoting Scripture to try to prove that God doesn't judge, so neither should humans judge homosexuals. "I really believe that God said very clearly 'Noone else can judge you, but Me'," Goldberg expressed.
A transcript of the segment, which aired on November 16 at 11:27 a.m. EDT, is as follows:
BARBARA WALTERS: You know, I'm sorry. I just want to ask you a controversial subject, although I know you stay away from – try to stay away from controversy. But the last time you were here, you said that homosexuality is not, and I'm quoting you, "God's best." And recently a pastor of an evangelical church in Georgia named Jim Sully came out and said that he's gay. He's married, he has children, but he's gay. What's your feeling about that?
Rev. JOEL OSTEEN: Well first off, Barbara, I should finish that sentence. I should make it clear. I don't think it's God's best for your life, I don't think it's not God's best making us. As far as that pastor is concerned, I don't know that individual situation. I think that – I believe the Scriptures teach us that a pastor in leadership like that is not going to stay in a Christian church like ours. But I don't know whether he's, whether he should come out or not. I believe maybe being open –
WALTERS: If he's in a Christian church, should he get out of the Christian church if he's gay?
OSTEEN: You know, I think that's totally up to him. I don't know. I mean, the main thing Barbara, is we are for people. Sometimes we get stuck on –
JOY BEHAR: You know it's not a choice, Pastor. It's not a choice, and therefore I don't think that God would look askance at homosexuality in that way, because it's not a choice. They're born this way, people are born this way. They are what they are.
OSTEEN: Well, I think that's –
BEHAR: And so the Christian church should embrace that notion.
OSTEEN: Well, you know what Joy –
BEHAR: You wouldn't reject somebody that had a deformity.
OSTEEN: Yeah, no I agree.
BEHAR: Or something else.
OSTEEN: Yeah, I think that – (Applause)
BEHAR: I don't mean to say it's a deformity, but there are other things that are embraced.
OSTEEN: But if you came to our church, Joy, you would see people from all walks of life. We don't have a sign at the door no gays, no drunkards, no people on drugs. We're for everybody, we're not against people. So we're helping them to become –
BEHAR: But when you say that the Bible is against gays, that makes people get bullied, and bad things happen to people because of what the people say about that.
OSTEEN: Well, it's –
BEHAR: It's terrible.
OSTEEN: I think the difficulty Joy is we're not for bullying. I mean, if you follow our ministry at all, we're for uplifting people. But there's the Scripture that we can't necessarily change.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG: I-I have a question, because I really believe that God said very clearly "Noone else can judge you, but Me. If you have an issue, if something's going on, you don't need to hear what anybody else says. Come to Me and I will forgive you."
COMMENT: I am not a Joel Osteen apologist and this does not make me one. The reason for posting this is to show yet another example of the Left directly assaulting Christian values. Osteen was clearly out of his depth in accepting this interview.
They should invite John MacArthur for the follow-up interview.
It doesn’t sound like Joy and Whoopi have the slightest problem with bullying someone.
OSTEEN: You know, I think that's totally up to him. I don't know. I mean, the main thing Barbara, is we are for people
Wow. A Christian leader that came up with that response is amazing.
The correct answer is there is a process in the Christian church. When someone is in a sinful relationship they are to be confronted with their sin. That means they are to be "judged" based upon their actions and how they square up with the scriptures IF THEY CALL THEMSELVES A FOLLOWER OF CHRIST!
This "judge not, lest ye be judged" crapola is always taken out of context and spouted by people who want to thumb their nose at the teachings of the bible. The church is called to judge those within its fellowship. If they are unrepentant they are to be removed from the body until and if they see the errors of their ways. The problem is that not enough churches will implement this discipline structure because they want to "love and accept everyone equally."
The View’s gaggle Witche’s actual mentality is truly breath taking!
We have no right to judge moral issues because God will Judge and forgive?
Mindless “clap trap”. God’s Judgement on the world is closer than many think. JMHO
“www.markmallett.com/blog/2010/11/so-little-time-left/”
Joel Osteen is a pastor?
No, you're right, they don't.
Joel Osteen's ministry is committed to accentuating the positive, and some other ministers have gently chided him for that emphasis, pointing out that sometimes ministers have to show some sinew and gristle and, frankly, some pepper, too. I suppose they're thinking of the money-changers, and about some people who need tough love.
I'm sure there are some ministers out there who could send these women home with their hair on fire -- but those ministers are not going to get invited on that show, are they? And Barbara Walters, let's notice, was the ringleader here. I think she set Osteen up to get beat up on by a couple of feminazi hags.
Joy Behar is lucky Vickie Osteen didn't come sailing out of the green room to dump Joy on her fat, wrinkly butt for picking on Vickie's sweet-natured man.
You got it..they naturally think that everyone is somehow really just like them. If I were Joy, I would firmly believe that the entire human race needs to be on a short leash.
One of the biggest churches in Houston. They meet now in the building that used to be called The Summit, where the Houston Rockets played for years in the days of Moses Malone, Clyde Drexler, and Hakeem Olajuwon.
So basically you're saying that it's the TEMPORAL duty of the Church to deal with homosexuality in an appropriate manner.
So tell me, how do you answer people who quote Jesus directly from Matthew, Mark and Luke when He said that (a) marriage is a temporal institution which is has no relevance in Heaven (in response to the Sadducees), and (b) that Moses' laws (for example divorce) were TEMPORAL responses to the sinful nature of Man, and therefore ought not to be confused with the purity of God's Law?
I only ask because I've seen a fair few debates on this side of the Atlantic where the very argument you make is countered by the atheists quoting Jesus to prove their point - and it does completely wrong-foot the religious side of the debate. I've even heard it said in a debate, that it's funny how hardline Christians always quote Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Moses and Paul of Tarsus but never quote Jesus in the debate!
Looks like Whoopi was trying to make that point as well although she did fluff it by saying God said it, instead of saying Jesus (and quoting the three chapter and verses where He said it, like the debaters over here do).
This is an issue us traditionalists really have to think long and hard about and this news story just suggests to me that the problem we have in Britain is the same as the problem you have with the mainstream media.
The moderates and the sell-outs and the atheists here basically say, "by your own admission and according to your own Scripture, your prejudice against gays has nothing to do with defending God's law, and everything to do with preserving the temporal authority of the Church over personal matters that aren't any of its business." It should be an easy argument to counter, but time and time again the traditionalists in the debate - as demonstrated by this case - seem almost lost for words. There has to be an answer for this... better training in debating tactics?
‘It doesn’t sound like Joy and Whoopi have the slightest problem with bullying someone.
No, you’re right, they don’t’
They have no class.
People like Joy think that anyone who tries to be an honorable, loving human being is just faking.
Oh, I think He does.
Haters Joy & Whoopie were the ones intolerant of Christian theology and beat up on Joel for his beliefs.
This is yet another typical leftist media tactic....invite the good pastor to talk about Christmas and then slam him with homosexual outrage. Don’t think for one minute this was spontaneous it was premeditated.
Doesn’t Koran say to kill .gays. Or are they more tolerant?
“Joel Osteen is a pastor?”
More a businessman/showman, with primary focus on happy horsesh!t instead of the Gospel. If someone wants to feel good, watch a Hallmark movie. If someone wants to get correct information about salvation and the Christian life, the subjects of judgment and sin must be “out there” clearly. If you don’t leave church feeling bad, guilty, or convicted, you’re going to the wrong church.
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