Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: SeaHawkFan
Please justify limited atonement in light of: I Timothy 2

This is a peculiar hermeneutic you Free Willers like to use. Misinterpret a difficult passage so that you may disregard and ignore the clear passages regarding a particular doctrine.

What you WANT to do is make Scripture contradict itself.

Isa 46:9-11 I am God, and there is none like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' Calling a bird of prey from the east, The man who executes My counsel, from a far country. Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it.

Plus we know that all kinds of men have died in their sins and are not saved. So we have a problem with the interpretation that you have eisegeted, or have imposed on the passage. Isaiah says that God will accomplish all of His Will, yet you want this passage to contradict that declaration and make God appear impotent and a failure because the vast majority will have died in their sins.

Calvinists like to have Scripture interpret Scripture, and so we must assume that God indeed does all of His pleasure, and with an abundance of other passages that speak of the Father giving to His Son the Elect, and the Son dying for and saving each and every without exception, then we must try to harmonize 1 Timothy 2 with all else that we have been taught.

The most direct and common route would be to look at context, particularly the first verse in this chapter where Paul is exorting Timothy to pray for all kinds of men, from kings to the commoners. Verse four gives reason to pray, make supplications and intercessions for all kinds of men - because that is God's plan that all kinds of men, from kings to commoners, Jews, Gentiles, women, poor, wealthy, people of all nations to be saved.

What you want to do is say that God wants everyone, head for head to be saved. No where in Scripture is this ever taught, and so eisegeting that meaning here, when the context really doesn't support it, and plenty of Scripture plainly contradicts it, is therefore unjustified. For if God wanted everyone head-for-head to be saved, then there wouldn't be all of this hypothetical talk of Hell and damnation since God, according to the prophet Isaiah, does everything in His Pleasure and thus all would receive His salvation and in the process would trash His attribute of Grace since Grace means "unmerited favor" and since ther would be no one favored and the whole process would be compulsory on God.....well, you get the point.

Then there are some reformed theologians who make a distinction between God's nature expressed in his will and a decree. They argue, that by making a provision for all, it removes the charge that the condemned are not to blame for their damnation because the ransom was arbitrarily kept from them. I know that this has the aroma of Universal Atonement, but a universal viewpoint assumes that God is surprised by man's choices. The debate goes downhill from there because the Free Willer won't allow the Calvinist to bring in clarifying passages since it will destroy the Free Willer's argument. So I know and fully understand why you are throwing down your Ace card here.

Simply, if you want to force Universal Atonement, when the Scriptures teach otherwise, then you apparently are comfortable with doctrinal contradictions, and have no problems with theological dead-ends and an overall diminunitive view of God and His Glory.

Its a different road we take

59 posted on 11/21/2010 10:21:34 PM PST by The Theophilus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies ]


To: The Theophilus; SeaHawkFan

The offer of salvation is universal. The means is faith - do you believe God, or not? If you believe, you will be saved. If not, you will be condemned. We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, not grace thru election.

“Verse 4. Who will have all men to be saved. That is, it is in accordance with his nature, his feelings, his desires. The word will cannot be taken here in the absolute sense, denoting a decree like that by which he willed the creation of the world, for then it would certainly be done. But the word is often used to denote a desire, wish, or what is in accordance with the nature of any one. Thus it may be said of God that he “wills” that his creatures may be happy—because it is in accordance with his nature, and because he has made abundant provision for their happiness—though it is not true that he wills it in the sense that he exerts his absolute power to make them happy. God wills that sickness should be relieved, and sorrow mitigated, and that the oppressed should go free, because it is agreeable to his nature; though it is not true that he wills it in the sense that he exerts his absolute power to produce it. A parent wills the welfare of his child. It is in accordance with his nature, his feelings, his desires; and he makes every needful arrangement for it. If the child is not virtuous and happy, it is his own fault. So God wills that all men should be saved. It would be in accordance with his benevolent nature. He has made ample provision for it. He uses all proper means to secure their salvation. He uses no positive means to prevent it, and if they are not saved it will be their own fault. For places in the New Testament where the word here translated “will” (\~yelw\~) means to desire or wish, Luke 8:20; 23:8; John 16:19; Galatians 4:20; Mark 7:24; 1 Corinthians 7:7; 11:3; 14:5; Matthew 15:28. This passage cannot mean, as many have supposed, that God wills that all kinds of men should be saved, or that some sinners of every rank and class may be saved, because

(1.) the natural and obvious interpretation of the language is opposed to such a sense. The language expresses the desire that “all men” should be saved, and we should not depart from the obvious sense of a passage unless necessity requires it.

(2.) Prayer and thanksgiving 1 Timothy 2:1 are directed to be offered, not for some of all ranks and conditions, but for all mankind. No exception is made, and no direction is given that we should exclude any of the race from the expressions of our sympathy, and from an interest in our supplications. The reason given here for that prayer is, that God desires that all men should be saved. But how could this be a reason for praying for all, if it means that God desired only the salvation of some of all ranks?

(3.) In 1 Timothy 2:5,6, the apostle gives reasons showing that God wished the salvation of all men, and those reasons are such as to prove that the language here is to be taken in the most unlimited sense. Those reasons are,

(a) that there is one God over all, and one Mediator between God and men—showing that God is the Father of all, and has the same interest in all; and

(b) that Christ gave himself a ransom for all—showing that God desired their salvation. This verse proves

(1.) that salvation is provided for all —for if God wished all men to be saved, he would undoubtedly make provision for their salvation; and if he had not made such provision, it could not be said that he desired their salvation, since no one can doubt that he has power to provide for the salvation of all;

(2.) that salvation should be offered to all men—for if God desires it, it is right for his ministers to announce that desire, and if he desires it, it is not proper for them to announce anything contrary to this;

(3.) that men are to blame if they are not saved. If God did not wish their salvation, and if he had made no provision for it, they could not be to blame if they rejected the gospel. If God wishes it, and has made provision for it, and they are not saved, the sin must be their own—and it is a great sin, for there is no greater crime which a man can commit than to destroy his own soul, and to make himself the eternal enemy of his Maker.”

http://www.studylight.org/com/bnn/view.cgi?book=1ti&chapter=002


101 posted on 11/22/2010 9:56:44 AM PST by Mr Rogers (Poor history is better than good fiction, and anything with lots of horses is better still)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson