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To: Springfield Reformer

“...comes in the context of reward for ministry”?

That’s not the context of the passage. Paul was humbling himself before God and feared for his salvation should he not fulfill his mission.

Of course you have no problem with these passages, you just ignore their intended meaning and prescribe a meaning that fits your beliefs. The Bible is a Catholic book that’s been around way before Calvin and like any other Protestant sect you interpret it how ever you please.

Jesus Christ Himself said, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven shall enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 7:21

“Why do you ask me what is good? One there who is good, and he is GOD. But if you will enter into life, OBEY THE COMMANDMENTS.” “Which commandments?” the man asked. Jesus said, “Never murder. Never commit adultery. Never steal. Never give false testimony. Honor your father and mother. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.”
Matthew 19:17-19
These verses clearly have said that if we do not obey the commandments, we will not have (eternal) life.
So if a person who thinks he is “saved”, and then lies or commits adultery,
how then does he reconcile his actions with Matthew 19:17-19 and Revelation 21:7-8 and 21:27?

Jesus did cure the infirmed man at the pool in John 5:1-9, and later He told him in verse 14, “See, you are well! SIN NO MORE, THAT NOTHING WORSE BEFALL YOU.” Does that sound like, “once saved, always saved”?

Here is yet another example, the woman caught in adultery in John 8:1-10. Jesus had prevented her from being stoned to death, and in verse 11 He said, “Neither do I condemn you; GO, AND DO NOT SIN AGAIN.” Again, Jesus cautioned, not to sin again.

What is the message from these two examples from John 5 and 8? What if both sinned again? In the first case it would seem that indeed, SOMETHING WORSE WOULD BEFALL THE MAN and in the second case it would be a clear disobedience by the woman to a direct command of Jesus. I repeat, does that sound like, “once saved, always saved”? No way!

Then there is Rom 11:22, “See, then, the goodness and the severity of GOD: His severity towards those who have fallen, but the goodness of GOD towards you if you abide in His goodness; OTHERWISE YOU WILL ALSO BE CUTOFF.”

“Here is the patience of the Saints, who keep the commandments of GOD, and the faith of Jesus.”
Revelation 14:12

If we are “saved” already then what is the purpose of having to obey the commandments?

But you are stuck with your beliefs right? I’ll take my chances with the Church Christ founded on St. Peter, not on Calvin.

“I would not believe in the Gospel myself if the authority of the Catholic Church did not influence me to do so.”
Against the letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D.


71 posted on 11/21/2010 11:40:39 PM PST by rbosque (12 year Freeper!!! Combat Economist.)
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To: rbosque

Well, I certainly admire your self-confidence. I try to obey God and constantly urge others to do so as well. Yet I have this defect, that though my spirit takes me in the right direction, my flesh gets in the way, and all the good things I would love to do, I don’t get them all done, and all the bad things I would avoid, I end up doing ... sometimes. Happily, I do not have any fear that I am on and off and on God’s books day in day out, because perfect love casts out fear. God is better than we make him out to be. My expectation is that God knew all this about me when he rescued me from the dark path.

And believe me, there was a very clear turning point for me. As a Calvinist, I do not encourage people to rest in the belief that some specific religious ceremony created a condition where they can do as they please and will still be saved in the end. The Scriptures do not teach that. Calvinism doesn’t teach that. The both of them do teach that when a person is born again in Christ, they become a new creation, a new and different person who loves and seeks to obey Christ and the Father, and that those thus reborn will in fact inherit eternal life.

If you could only know what I was before that moment, you would understand the miracle of redemption God has worked in my life. For me to deny the reality of such blessing would be perilously close to blasphemy, a denial of the faith, so dramatic and obvious was the working of his mercy in my life. I will never renounce it, not for any inducement, and least of all for some vague and unsubstantiated genealogical claim of a Petrine Pedigree being made by a relatively modern denominational group. Go back to the “stem cell” church from which we both came. That is the unity we should be finding with each other, in fulfillment of the prayer of Christ. I long for that day, don’t you?


73 posted on 11/22/2010 12:13:37 AM PST by Springfield Reformer (Winston Churchill: No Peace Till Victory!)
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