Posted on 11/28/2010 4:13:46 PM PST by bibletruth
One of my standards of life hermeneutics is the last line of one of Shakespeare's sonnets: Lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds. I take this to mean that if you REALLY want to mess something up, start with something really good. I like to think that Popes like Alexander VI (Favorite quote: "The Papacy at last is ours, let us at least enjoy it!") were experts in smelling far worse than weeds. And even we Dominicans have spat up a few choice stinkers (hard as that may be to believe .... yeah, right.)
Sorry, what? The Textus Receptus is a critical text of the Greek New Testament, based on the readings of a handful of late Byzantine manuscripts and published in 1633. Erasmus didn't translate the TR from the Vulgate, apart from one or two brief passages where his half-dozen Greek manuscripts contained incomplete copies of Revelation. Jerome translated the Vulgate from Greek. You've got the cart before the horse.
Which bears a remarkable resemblance to the Vulgate.
Jerome translated the Vulgate from Greek.
Correct.
Jerome translated the Vulgate from Greek. You've got the cart before the horse.
Consider this, WHY do you think the Douay-Rheims and King James Version are so incredibly similar throughout if one is a translation from the Vulgate and the other from the Textus Receptus?
“nanny-nanny-boo-boo” Is that in the Greek? And the Bible (2Sam. 1:19,25,27), as well as a sad portion of evang. Prot. history testifies to “how are the mighty fallen,” though whether they did not strive lawfully but “climbed up some other way” (as the devil sought to do) is the other issue.
In contrast is the core truth that God “The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit,” (Psalms 34:18) “ even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at My word,” (Is. 66:2) and who thus trusts in the mercy of God in Christ, and glories in the Lord. (Jer. 9:24) Whenever i do otherwise i diminish myself.
“nanny-nanny-boo-boo” Is that in the Greek?
I'm going with Ugaritic on this one.
That whole thing from Isaiah 66 is excellent! Thanks! Reminiscent of the wonderful 57:15. That verse was a part of my growing up in the Episcopal Church.
A nice Dominican custom is that when somebody compliments you on your sermon, you respond, "Praise God!" What a grace it is to long for the Word before whom we are to tremble!
U-2012.The Error in the KJV was from the Vulgate.
Isa 14:12 quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes
I think the “take away” should be that the KJV and
any other translation based on the Vulgate is highly
suspect for exegesis.
Consider this quote
(I could,nt care less), which meaning is i don,t care at all.
In just a few years it was changed by the younger generation to
(I could care less), which in the speakers mind they are saying the same thing, but what they are really saying is that they do care.
If you could,nt care less you don,t care at all
if you could care less you must care some or you could,nt care less.
So if some one sent you or me a message by one of the latter Saying (they could not care less)
and the messenger told us the message was (i could care less)
Would we really know for sure what was meant? seems to me we would just have to depend on our common sense.
Put a nickle in it and see if it will start.
To God be the glory. I have often said that believers need to have the same kind of heart as regards an honest, poor and contrite spirit, as they had when they first were born again - which is an event that results in a manifest change. And which heart i daily need to seek, while growing in wisdom.
David the king said he “behaved and quieted myself, as a child that is weaned of his mother,” and as a child one must be, (Mt. 18:3) but “not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.” (1 Corinthians 14:20) And Paul was “serving the Lord with all humility of mind”. (Acts 20:19)
The problem with the institutionalized church, with more form than reality, and which is more alarmed at the pot that boils over than the one that does not even simmer, is not only critically false teachings which such often hold, but even if it does hold to the gospel which disallows gaining eternal life by any merit of works (or that God’s mercy does not “really” require the atonement), it does not preach it in such a way that sinners are convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment, as damned souls destitute of any merit whereby they may escape their just damnation and gain salvation, and so abase themselves as sinners and cast all their faith in the Lord Jesus and His sinless shed blood for salvation.
I often think of Isaiah in cp. 6, whose condition i too much share in heart. In that light one will somewhat understand what “falling short of the glory” means. And as one man said, “I do not think any man could see his sins in the light of the countenance of God and live.” But which makes the need for so great salvation by the great God and Savior realized, and appreciated. Yet how easily it can be to take grace for granted, and not remember the pit from whence one was digged. (Is. 51:1)
Sorry if i should not be doing devotionals here.
I pray that you seek the face of YHvH. Have wonderful journey on the wide road of life.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Well, don't stop on my account! If more threads went from backbiting to devotion, we'd be better witnesses.
Your remarks about organized religion touch me "in a special way" since, for my sins, I have been elected to the Parish Pastoral Council. I expect to become a Quaker before my term is up -- or maybe a hermit.
(As you know from your Catholic background, "in a special way" is a phrase Catholics use when they don't want to take the time or trouble to figure out in WHAT way. It's one of the first things I learned about Catholic culture. The other thing is that every liturgical season and most holy days must be introduced by the Pastor calling it a "beautiful" season or day. As a would-be philosopher, I wonder, "If they're ALL beautiful, isn't it redundant to mention their beauty? Wouldn't we save a lot of time if we just said, "Hey! It's beautiful! As you were." But they don't listen to me ...)
I have been very blessed in two relevant ways. One is represented by the sign on the pulpit desk in the "practice chapel" at my seminary: "Woe is me if I preach not the Gospel!" And the other is by the wonderful preaching and teaching I've been offered at the two parishes with which I have been associated since I swam the Tiber in 1994.
To me the meaning and the mission of the first is that I want to proclaim first the Love of God -- first the possessive genitive, which will, I believe tend then to inspire the objective genitive.
Years ago a radio evangelist told me that in his experience the normal sequence of events was that his auditors first heard and responded to the Love, and then, after a distinct interval, like a day or two, got a real insight into their sinfulness. I find in my own life that, while part of my adult turning to Christ was a seeking of relief from the pain of remorse, it was increasing confidence in His Love that gave (and gives) increasing understanding of my need to throw myself utterly upon it -- and to long for the coal from the altar to be touched to my lips.
In any event, my paradigmatic sermon traces the sins I assume we acknowledge to a lack of faith, and a resulting kind of spiritual wound or deformation; and then preaches Love to that wound. (Whether I was ever any good at it is another question altogether.)
As for the second, at least where I worship, the pedal point of all the preaching and teaching is "Every good thing is a freely-given gift, nothing is earned by us, and without these good gifts are lives are filth, confusion, and sorrow."
But, I have to say that I do remember one confession when the priest, a ringer from another parish, obviously had read a little too much of "I'm Okay, You're Okay," and way too little of the Bible. That's okay, the efficacy of the sacrament is not lessened if the priest is, maybe, a little jejune.
But my comment, upon further review, is that here was a priest into whom the Gospel had not sunk very far, so that he saw neither the calamity of sin nor the wonder of the remedy, and therefore succumbed to the temptation to minimize both in his counsel.
I think I'll pray for him today.
Have wonderful journey on the wide road of life.
I pray that you seek the face of YHvH.
Isaiah was being sarcastic in his address to the mean Babylonian king who was now brought down from his self-assigned perch. It was Jerome who used the Latin name ‘Lucifer’ instead of repeating a long phrase from the text he was translating. Over the centuries the name Jerome used ‘accumulated’ a surrounding mythos. The original intent of the name was to substitute for the phrase, not rename Satan as Lucifer.
Because the translators of the D-R relied rather heavily on the text of the Tyndale-Coverdale Bibles, of which line the KJV is also part. Again, the cart before the horse.
Isaiah was being sarcastic in his address to the mean Babylonian king who was now brought down from his self-assigned perch. It was Jerome who used the Latin name ‘Lucifer’ instead of repeating a long phrase from the text he was translating. Over the centuries the name Jerome used ‘accumulated’ a surrounding mythos. The original intent of the name was to substitute for the phrase, not rename Satan as Lucifer.
In other words i believed that he was just mocking the King.
Thanks .
“his auditors first heard and responded to the Love.” And people think the Bible can to easily be misunderstood (after suspecting a typo i found the 2 meanings)
I was not minimizing the love, but today, due to the flesh being satiated with things, and where most all think God loves them and is ok with how they live, i think Jesus would be preaching much like unto Lk. 6:24-26, beginning at the house of God. Few souls are walking under conviction of sin and looking for mercy here, and it is in the light of the holiness and justice of almighty God that love and mercy became a precious need for souls. Living a week under he Law would do us all some good, though grace is purposed to bring man higher. (Rm. 8:4)
“I expect to become a Quaker”:)
Quakers went too far in reaction against institutionalization.
“in a special way”
How about “mystery?”
What used to get me after i became born again and unintended “different” (though more aware of how carnal the old man is) and eager to talk about the Bible and God saving souls was “we Christians,” while virtually no one showed in interest in or identification with such or heart in worship, etc. Not that i had arrived, or have yet.
“the coal from the altar to be touched to my lips.”
not only, “but also my hands and my head.” Peter knew the problem began with the head.
“too much of “I’m Okay, You’re Okay,””
Think that had much to do with the 60’s “back to the Garden” but not to God mentality?
Well written response, even if i do not sanction other things: http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/SEMINAR.htm
“I’ve done the study for myself” — ah, me, me, me. Sola solo mio
Think that had much to do with the 60’s “back to the Garden” but not to God mentality?
That is a lovely and thought-provoking characterization. I think that's JUST what too many were doing.
IMHO, as my pastor said when I jokingly told him that I wanted to take back my offering of suffering to God, "God doesn't do 'do-overs.'" Though there might be some debate about passing through Eden, we do not get to linger. God has something far far better in mind.
A blessed Advent and a Merry Christmas to you. Come, Lord Jesus!
Yup, God created this thing I have called the mind and gave me the Holy Spirit that His word might be understood. I've only followed His command. Got a problem with that, take it to Him, because you don't know me from beans. You have no idea where God has brought me from, what He has brought me out of, and what He has shown me. You have no idea what's in this heart! I can assure you, it's not all about me. It's about Him and glorifying Him, because He rescued me from a living hell on earth, cleansed me, gave me purpose, gave me peace, gave me joy, gave me life, and gave me unction. I know in Whom I have believed, He walks with me and talks with me daily. He's blessed me on many occasions with a glimpse of His glory. I am but dung and recognize He is everything. Your judgmental attitude toward this heart who knows and appreciates God us uncalled for. 1
And by the way, you would do well to “pull the beam out of your own eye”, rather than trying to get the NIV splinter out of your brothers eye. Also, stop straining for nats until you cough up the camel.
Yes, Back to the Garden meant without moral law and clothes. Whiles Woodstock is celebrated as an example of how beautiful the “free (as in uncommitted) love” ethos, Haight Ashbury is a real example.
Yet not all were rebels against moral authority and seeking a Christless utopia they could only find thru drugs, many of who run the MSM it seems, but some were looking for the reality, and found it in such churches as Calvary Chapel. Wonderful moves btw on that, http://www.calvarychapel.com/media/VENTURE.mp4 (download) in which i see God moving to reach these in the “Jesus movement,” while it lasted.
Is the thread dead yet?
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