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To: Reeses; greyfoxx39; Osage Orange; Elsie; delacoert; svcw; aMorePerfectUnion
Reeses, what are you, some kind of statistical propagandist?

Let's take your claims & start measuring them vs. reality:

Mormon's success is also high marriage rates...

I looked a few years back and was frankly surprised to see that despite Utah having the lowest median age in the country, it only ranked #17 among states re: those who were married. (Barely ahead of Florida, Nebraska & Oregon)

So why (at that time...not sure how the stats have changed in the last 2 years) were 29% of men in Utah single? [Along with 22.3% of women?] All in a culture where marriage is HEAVILY stressed!

Even a BYU student-journalist noted this trend in a January 2010 BYU Daily Universe article Sister missionaries and the aging single population -- where Chelsea Warren noted:

...fewer BYU students are getting married during their college years than ever before. According to the Y Facts University Marriage Statistics page, the percentage of married students at BYU has steadily declined from 29 percent in 1992 to 25 percent in 2009. While a 4-percent drop may not seem like much, it reflects a national trend of the aging single population.

This is rather significant. Why? Because LDS teach that marriage itself is a "law" to be obeyed if one wants to progress to godhood.

...less crime...

(Well, ONLY if you want to ignore both white-collar crime and sexual and domestic violence in Utah).

Utah's sexual violence:

#1 ”Utah's rate of rape against women is about 10 percent higher than the national average, according to the department.” Source: Utah's sexual assault rate outpaces U.S. average

Sidebar to article mentions: » In 2008, Utah's rate of rape was 63.7 for every 100,000 females; the U.S. average is 57.4. » Reported rapes decreased in Utah about 10 percent during the 10 years ending in 2008. » Carbon, Salt Lake, Tooele, Uintah and Weber counties had higher rates of rape than the state rate between 2002 and 2008. Source: Utah Department of Health, Utah Bureau of Criminal Identification

#2 This wasn't some “new surge”: Since 1991, Utah’s rape rate has consistently inched higher than the national rate. By 2002, Utah ranked 14th in the nation for rapes. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600125585,00.html ]

Why has Utah as of the years since 2000, consistently has ranked between 14 & 18 re: rape rate? Why as of 4 years ago, was Utah #8 in the nation for its sex offender rate per Nation Master.com?

#3 There's something about Utah itself: The Salt Lake Tribune reported Fall 2009 that in 2005, Utah ranked 16th in the nation for teacher sex offenses... Source: Sexual misconduct persistent in Utah schools

Domestic violence:

The U.S. Department of Justice reported (Fall 2001) ”that national domestic violence rates decreased 41 percent since 1993. But Utah officials reported a 31 percent increase in state domestic violence between 1997 and 2000. With those climbing numbers, Utah in 2001 had the second highest domestic violence rate in the nation.” Source url: http://byumedia.com/story.cfm/34616

Utah's White-Collar crime reputation:

(The second note below shows this problem is endemic & specific to the Mormon church):
* ”Frustrated by the wave of fraud that by one estimate took $750 million out of Utahns' pocketbooks last year, regulators, law enforcement officials and attorneys are organizing a free 'Fraud College' next month in Utah County for the public to call attention to the problem and to try to combat it.” Source: Preying on the faithful: Though Mormons often victims, LDS Church skips fraud-prevention event
* Lds members have fleeced over $1.4 billion from fellow Mormons the past few years alone! Guess what? They initially didn't regret "doing business" with them, either!!!
Source: Mormons Now Losing Billions to Affinity Fraud
* This isn't new...Utah has long been host to the most per-capita fraud in America: Salt Lake City, with a mere 170,000 residents, is by far the country’s smallest city where the scam-fighting U.S. Securities & Exchange Commission has an office. It has been there since the early 1950s. Why? “There is a lot of fraud here per capita,” says local SEC boss Kenneth Israel. “There doesn’t seem to be any shortage of work for us.” [Source url: http://www.lds-mormon.com/6303056a.shtml ]
* Utah was #1 in mortgage fraud in America by 2001 when the FBI listed Utah as No. 1 in the country for the amount of mortgage fraud cases reported. [Source url: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,600151169,00.html ]

...and many other metrics.

(Oh, like depression and suicide?)

* See Two Studies Find Depression Widespread in Utah

* See Utah leads the nation in rates of depression

* See where Utah has the most anti-depressant use, especially in women: Study Finds Utah Leads Nation in Antidepressant Use. Some point to the pressures of Mormonism, especially for women, to explain the surprising findings. [Source urls:
http://www.usu.edu/psycho101/lectures/chp2methods/study.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/06/03/eveningnews/main510918.shtml ]

* ”Utah, which a 2007 report said had the country's highest rate of nonmedical painkiller abuse.” Source: Utah has new prescription for painkiller problem

* Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24: As of 5 years ago: Utah leads the nation in suicides among men aged 15 to 24...Utah also has the 11th highest suicide rate — 14.3 deaths per 100,000 people — in the nation over all age groups, according to the most recent data from the American Association of Suicidology.” Deadly taboo: Youth suicide an epidemic that many in Utah prefer to ignore

* Utah has the country's highest suicide rate for males between the ages of 14 and 25. That grim statistic is given a name and a troubled family in Carol Lynn Pearson's impassioned ‘Facing East,’ now at the International City Theatre in Long Beach. Source url: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2285528/posts

* ”For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24. Source url: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/lds_LowSuicideRate.html

Now, this article actually says being active Lds "helps" in comparing rates. But this and another study I saw actually says when you compare the suicide rates for active Lds, inactive or less-active Lds, and non-Lds, the middle category is by far the highest:

In addition, per this article – the risk of suicide among males aged 15 to 19 was three times higher among the less active church members than among their active peers, but the rate among the active youth was comparable to the national suicide rate.

So...this article not only says suicide risk is 3x higher among less active Lds than active Lds (among 15-19 yo), but that the suicide rate for active Lds 15-19 yo is no different than the national suicide rate!!!

My point: Mormonism is no barrier to the suicide rate for teens, and in fact, jeopardizes more teens (the less active ones)!

It's clear Mormons are very conservative politically and they shouldn't be attacked leftist style on a conservative political website.

Actually, it's clear you've flunked your Utah sociological homework. And therefore you need to apologize to posters you've falsely accused due to your data blinders!

62 posted on 12/12/2010 2:38:48 AM PST by Colofornian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies ]


To: Colofornian
what are you, some kind of statistical propagandist?

You've carefully cherry picked negative data. Mormons are conservatives. What is your motivation for demonizing them like leftists do? Are they a competitive threat to your religion?

64 posted on 12/12/2010 8:59:37 AM PST by Reeses
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