The dispensational view has the second coming of Jesus Christ at the end of the 7 year tribulation period; followed by a judgment called the first resurrection.
There is no judgment associated with the first resurrection. That's an inference of the dispensationalist.
The text of Revelation identifies who the people are that are judged.
I don't believe it does. Could you be more specific?
Dispensationalists view this as a counterpart to the bema seat judgment of Christ
I'm familiar with the theory. I don't believe it is supported from Scripture.
The ones taken are taken away into judgment at the return of Christ ... there is no rapture in Matt 24.
OK, but you just said that there was no judgment of unbelievers at the first resurrection. Where is this second coming/first resurrection judgment of unbelievers taught? In fact where do you find the Bible addressing at all the fate of unbelievers at the “first resurrection?”
So only regenerate mortal people go into the MK, correct? Again, where exactly if the fate of the unbelievers at this time spoken?
One dispensationalist (a converted Jew) supports the position that death will be confined to unbelievers only and believers will all live for the entire MK.
But there are no unbelievers going into the MK, correct? So where do they come from?
Misery ... I think the passage shows that there will be no more misery in the kingdom.
Where there's sin there's misery. There will still be death so there is misery. There will be unbelievers so there will be misery. No?
Jesus Christ will rule with a rod of iron from Jerusalem.
A rod of iron cannot deal with our misery. Sin is the root of human misery. Until you finally deal with sin, you will have misery. And in the dispensational scheme, Jesus doesn't finally deal with sin and death until after the thousand years, no?
The curse of the earth will be removed
Again, until you deal finally with sin, the curse remains, no? Death is still happening all around. Death is an effect of the curse from the fall.
The dispensational view is that Satan is bound during the millennial kingdom. He nor his cohorts will be on the scene deceiving anyone.
But deception is only one kind of sin. Rev. 20 says nothing about all the other sins that cause folks to stumble.
Even after 1000 years of peace and prosperity, there will be a portion of unbelieving man who will despise the rule of
A rather large group of people, if you take a “literal” view of Rev. 20. He gathers all the nations against the camp of the saints. The image is of an overwhelming hoard, so large that they must be rescued by fire from heaven. Jesus on earth is apparently powerless to do anything, in the dispensational scheme. Do you believe there will be a majority or minority of saved people with Jesus in the camp at this time?
how do you view Isaiah 65?
Interesting question. Both Isaiah 65 and 66 refer to the “new heavens and new earth.” In a non-dispensational system like my own, the beginning of the “new heavens and new earth” happens at Christ first coming. It is fulfilled at the end, at the second coming, when Christ deliver up the kingdom to the Father, after the final judgment. It is finally and fully pictured for us in Rev. 21 and 22. There is obvious progression during the period in which we currently live, which also happens to coincide with the thousand years.
The first resurrection coincides with Christ's resurrection. “Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.” I believe that refers to all of us in this age who are in Christ. Compare John 5:25 where Jesus tells His disciples, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.” This is our spiritual resurrection, wherein God has raised us up and seated us in heavenly places with Christ Jesus (Ephesians 2:5,6).
Now, how do you reconcile the language of Isaiah 65, i.e., “new heavens and new earth” with MK?
Also, is there a particular source (a book or paper) you find covers all the points of your view?
Other than the Bible? :-) No, not all. Here are a few:
Postmillennialism: An Eschatology of Hope by Keith A. Mathison
He Shall Have Dominion by Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr.
An Eschatology of Victory by J. Marcellus Kik
Don't have alot of time now so let me pick off the low hanging fruit ...
The ones taken are taken away into judgment at the return of Christ ... there is no rapture in Matt 24. OK, but you just said that there was no judgment of unbelievers at the first resurrection.
I should have been more clear ... the "taken away into judgment" that is mentioned in Matt 24 is merely death. At the second coming Christ kills all unbelievers. Their final judgment awaits the GWT judgment after the MK. Sorry about that.
But there are no unbelievers going into the MK, correct? So where do they come from?
At the beginning of the MK there are no unbelievers. You have believing Jews and Gentiles only. But just like today, life will go on (albiet with some pretty radical changes as mentioned in the last post) ... and both Jews and Gentiles will still have children. This is mentioned in the Isaiah passage. And just like today, some of them may not believe, though there is variation in dispensational though as to whether there will be any unbelieving Jews. Some would say no based on the New Covenant passage in Jer. 31 ... "they will all know Me."
Where there's sin there's misery. There will still be death so there is misery. There will be unbelievers so there will be misery. No?
Yes, I agree, there will be a degree of misery because of what you have said. But Im missing your point though. I think with the radical changes to the earth that much of the misery that exists today will be gone. What are the sources of misery that we experience today? Lots of them. Starvation on entire continents; that will be gone. Accidents, natural disasters; those will be gone. Infant mortality; gone. Down the list. There will be some to be sure ... but nothing like today. Total absence of it will happen in the eternal state ...
A rod of iron cannot deal with our misery. Sin is the root of human misery. Until you finally deal with sin, you will have misery. And in the dispensational scheme, Jesus doesn't finally deal with sin and death until after the thousand years, no? No, a rod of iron cannot deal totally with our misery. The rod of iron seems to be related to how Christ will rule the nations. Many of the sources of human misery will be done away with in the MK. For example, we will not have human trafficking, there will be no poverty or war or famine, no infant mortality, etc. etc. etc. Correct, sin and death will finally be dealt with in the eternal state ... after the loosing of Satan, his defeat, the GWT judgment ... then on to the eternal state.
But deception is only one kind of sin. Rev. 20 says nothing about all the other sins that cause folks to stumble.
Which we are all susceptable to because of our sin nature. We don't need Satan to help us sin, we are capable of fouling things up all by ourselves. And I suppose that will be the great lesson of the MK ... that in spite of Jesus visible presence, perfect human environment to live in ... men still have the capacity to sin in and of themselves. Yes, I as a dispensationalist believe Calvin was correct in many things.
A rather large group of people, if you take a “literal” view of Rev. 20. He gathers all the nations against the camp of the saints. The image is of an overwhelming hoard, so large that they must be rescued by fire from heaven. Jesus on earth is apparently powerless to do anything, in the dispensational scheme.
Of course He is not powerless to do anything about it. The mere fact that He destroys them all attests to that. Why doesnt He destroy all unbelievers today and get on with the eternal state? Lots of reasons ... but the bottom line; thats not the plan.
Do you believe there will be a majority or minority of saved people with Jesus in the camp at this time?
Good question. I don't know. Seems like a priori that most people would be believers ... but as you have said, there are enough unbelievers from the nations to form a massive insurgency; which Christ deals with pretty much immediately.
I have to leave it at that for now ... more later ... thanks for the references.