Posted on 12/15/2010 5:17:34 AM PST by ImProudToBeAnAmerican
It doesn’t directly say 6000 years, but if you count the years of the generations from Adam to Christ, you have a pretty good idea of the actual age of the earth. Amazingly, that’s exactly what the Jews do with their calander and while I may quibble with a few things, I agree with them that earth is not over 6000 years old.
The pope, for one.
Me: The Bible does not say the good Lord made the Earth 6,000 years old.
You: It doesn’t directly say 6000 years,
Thank you. That is my bible lesson to you for today.
I tend to believe the gap theory between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:2. To think the earth is only 6000 years old seems to me to be putting God in a box of time. Certainly if He is eternal then there was something before this world as we know it.
What was special was the time when it was generally accepted that the world had been created on a Thursday at 3:15 p.m. 4125 years earlier (that’s just my guess but there was a specific date and time). And these fossils were the hard evidence that there were creatures who were no longer alive who had been alive long before that date. And, the two people who discovered them and made them available were women which in the time was remarkable. Just an interesting story.
How long were Adam and Eve in the Garden? Since God originally designed them to live forever, then theoretically couldn’t they have been in the Garden for millions, if not billions of years?
Correction: "God does not lie. For the fundie interpretation of the Bible to be literally true He would have had to create massive false evidence of a 13.8 billion year old universe, including falsely planted fossils of every variety and light from stars created in situ only a few hundred light years from our solar system so that they can arrive “just in time”.
No, not ignorant just not well stated. Most “science” that is passed to us today is nothing more than Naturalistic Athiesm’s religious dogma. It’s not a case of the data itself disagreeing with Scripture, but a case of how that data is interpreted that is in disagreement with Scripture.
They have lost the argument so badly in the past 25 years that they now just skip to the end and open with the ridicule.
It also makes more sense when one considers that It took 7 days according to Genesis, and on the 8th DAY GOD RESTED.
I do not remember ever reading about a 9th Day.
Ergo, we are living in the 8th Day.
How long is that 'day'?
It hasn't ended yet, so we can't tell. If the 8th day ever ends, then we will know exactly how long the 'heaven and Earth and the Universe' have existed.
I think this whole exercises to 'prove' that the Earth is 6,000 years old is somewhere between silly and stupid. It is a futile attempt to bring something about that has absolutely no bearing on one's salvation. What your relationship is with Christ is of importance ...not whether you think the world was created 6,000 years old and their were dinosaurs on the Ark (or some of the other 'proofs' places like the museum of intelligent design try to show).
Furthermore, I do not understand why the two have to be mutually exclusive. Why it is either you believe in evolution, or you believe in God. I personally believe in both ....that God brought about the world in an orderly way. Looking at Genesis, the process laid there is more or less that of evolution ...life in the seas, then land, and on the 6th day Man appears. Even before anything happens on earth, the first verse says something (iirc) in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth and that the earth was formless. Even going before that ...the 'let there be light!' Hmmm ....a sudden explosion of light (sounds something like what Science calls the Big Bang). Plant life does not appear until the third day, and (now checking the Word: 1:11 Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth"; and it was so. 1:12 And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good) ....so, if I take the LITERAL meaning, the plants immediately sprouted and yielded seed and bore fruit within one 24 hour period all over the world? Can God do that? Yes, he can. However, in all of his creation, one thing that can be seen is that God is very orderly. Whether the seed is a physical seed (e.g. an apple seed) or a spiritual seed (e.g. faith), it does not sprout forth immediately but takes time. Many people (on the spiritual side) have lost blessings because they cannot see the seed is germinating just under the surface, and give up just before it sprouts forth. Day 5 sees all these animals created and told to multiply ....note, that the creatures created are creatures of the sea, birds and the 'great sea monsters.' It takes until day SIX for the beasts of the earth and the likes of cattle to come. Just like the science process ....from the sea came reptiles, from reptiles birds, and once the age of the dinosaurs was over mammals (the Hebrew word for wild animal is 'chayyah,' which is what is used) came forth. Then the final act of creation is man. The same process as in science.
Which makes sense to me, because until VERY recently (the last 100 years or so ....actually much less than a hundred years if you add the proliferation of knowledge to the rest of the world) it would have been difficult for people from the time of Daniel or David or Joshua or Moses or Paul (the general people listening to the Torah being read for instance) to understand vast ages ....but simple days are easy to comprehend. It is only in the last hundred years (again, less than that in all truth) that the level of understanding in humanity has shot up.
Also, the 6,000 year reference ...that is thanks to Archbishop Ussher in the 17th century work Annales Veteris et Novi Testamenti (and Dr Lightfoot some years before him) calculating that the earth started 4004BC. This is the same period where Ussher was debating on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Certain 'debates' held then were quite silly.
However, the main thing here is what the Hebrew word 'Yom' stands for. 24 days, or an age. Obviously some try to prove one way or another ....one Church group was trying to prove the current existence of dinosaurs by going to Lake Tele in the Congo to try and get evidence of the Mkolele Mbembe (think of it as an African Loch Ness monster). I find that silly.
My thoughts are laid out above. However, the most important one of them is this. It doesn't matter! What matters is your relationship with God through Christ Jesus. The rest is silly and a waste of time. There will be Christians in heaven who believed the world was created 6,000 years ago (or the 'newer' standard of 10,000 years that some believe in). There will be Christians in heaven who believed God created the universe in a process analogous to that shown in science. Who knows ....there might be some Christians in heaven who believe a certain number of angels can dance on the head of a pin ....or the Earth is flat ....or women should ocver their heads in church ....or men need to have physical circumcision ....or different numbering of the Ten Commandments! All will however have one similarity ...they will have accepted Christ into their hearts as Lord and Savior. All the other discussions are between silly and stupid, and totally worthless.
I like how Paul addressed the issue of food (potentially) sacrificed to idols, which was an issue similar to this one in the olden days (another similar one was the issue of whether new Christians need to be circumcised). On the food: 1 Corinthians 10:25–32 25 Eat anything sold in the meat market without raising questions of conscience, 26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.” 27 If some unbeliever invites you to a meal and you want to go, eat whatever is put before you without raising questions of conscience. 28 But if anyone says to you, “This has been offered in sacrifice,” then do not eat it, both for the sake of the man who told you and for conscience’ sake 29 the other man’s conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another’s conscience? 30 If I take part in the meal with thankfulness, why am I denounced because of something I thank God for? 31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God. 32 Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God
Paul is actually MUCH harsher in the book of Galatians, where he really goes after those who say you have to be circumcised, or believe in a certain way about circumcision, in order to be a 'real Christian. In Galatians 6:12 he states: ' 12 Those who want to impress people by means of the flesh are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ.' In Galatians 5 he even goes ahead to say:
'Galatians 5 Freedom in Christ
1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. 7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
I believe the whole debate about Christians having to accept 6,000 years (or the alternative 10,000 years) is more of the same. Save the energy and show the love of Christ to another human being. That is better use of time that hunting African dinosaurs in the Congo.
I believe the Lord God created the world in an orderly fashion, in the same way he causes a small seed to grow slowly over many many years into a large tree. The same way he created the force of gravity, the strong and weak nuclear forces, and electromagnetism. The same way a growing human fetus moves from a sperm and an egg fusing to form life at conception, to a zygote, to a fetus with a tail and huge eyes, until 9 (or so) months later child-birth occurs. Most importantly though, I believe Christ died for me on that cross, and I have accepted Him in His purity just as He accepted me in my filth and total lack of worthiness. Through Him I will be in heaven some day. Whether that 'Yom' is today, or many years from now, some Yom I will be with him.
My weaknesses, or consumption of food sacrificed to some idol, or no growing a beard, or not celebrating the passover, or worshipping everyday/Sunday/Saturday/etc, or not believing the World is 6,000 (or 10,000) years old has no bearing on that fact.
Thank you for your time.
One of the three scientists that decoded the Human Genome once said that you’d have just as much of a chance with a hurricane plowing through a junkyard and leaving a fulling functional Jumbo-Jet than life on Earth being an accident of nature.
That’s a very good point and one worth noting. Time is absolutely relative and yet we use it as an absolute in judging the age of the universe. Time is dependent upon the framework of the observer.
Never said he was infallable, but the Scripture on the other hand...
Take your pick, who do you trust for your salvation, God or Man?
Some folks find it incredible that I believe the Earth is 6,000 years old.
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Many People believe that the word translated as created in Genesis should actually be translated as “organized”. If that is true and the materials were already here and God organized them into our earth then the materials would be perhaps very old even though the earth would really only be 6,000 years old. Kind of like a car, the iron ore that made the steel could be billions of years old but the car is still new.
Good job.
So fallible man can over rule infallible, SOVERIGN God?
I’m seeing a logical problem with your statement. Everything else about the Bible, God and Salvation rests upon the idea that we can trust everything about God. If He’s not powerful enough to protect His word in it’s integrity, then He’s not God.
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