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To: wmfights

The author’s second point is in error. Repentance and turning away from sin as in no longer continuing to pursue that sinful nature is stated in the scriptures as being one of the two conditions for salvation. In truth, there are 10 steps of logic / faith that a person must accept before becoming a Christian. And as these 10 point are mostly sequential, the failure to accept all 10 creates serious risk to salvation.


In Mark 16:16 (16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.) Jesus makes it very clear that belief + baptism = salvation. But if one does not believe then Jesus makes it very clear that person shall not be saved.

What does that belief mean or require:

1) That there is a God
2) That God is the one, only and true (perfect) God
3) That God being perfect, can not accept or tolerate sin and will judge and separate those that sin from himself
4) That God made man with the right of self awareness and self determination
5) That Man sinned against God and chose a sinful nature
6) That unless that sin is atoned for, the punishment for that sin is eternal separation from God (see#3)
7) That God in his grace and mercy created Jesus to pay for and atone for our sins so that we may be saved
8) That Jesus came and died, rose again and paid for our sins
9) That I am a sinner and my past life was lived in sin.

Now here is the tipping point, the point where belief turns to action, the “repentance point”.

10) That I no longer wish to live in sin and that I will accept Jesus and his teachings to govern my life so that I might be saved and in doing so, I will turn away from (repent) my former sinful life and follow Jesus. And as an act of obedience to the new Lord of my life, I will outwardly show this by being baptized in his name in front of others.

A failure to believe or faith in any of those 10 foundational items seriously jeopardizes the “believe” part of Mark 16:16. As to my prior point, children that do not yet believe, or anyone for that matter, are not in alignment with Jesus teachings.


5 posted on 12/15/2010 9:43:59 AM PST by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

Agree with everything you said there with the exception of one word: “created.”


10 posted on 12/15/2010 9:55:07 AM PST by DryFly
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To: taxcontrol
So is a Christian who therefore slips up and sin's, no longer "saved"?

How do you reconcile this with Ephesians 2:8-10?

I've yet to meet a Christian that has met the criteria of perfection you seem to lay out in item 10 - we all fall short...we simply can't meet the perfection expected by God...

therefore, the act of grace on the cross.

Faith alone in Christ alone.

13 posted on 12/15/2010 9:57:32 AM PST by NorCoGOP (OBAMA: Living proof that hope is not a plan.)
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To: taxcontrol

“That God in his grace and mercy created Jesus to pay for and atone for our sins so that we may be save”

Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.

The Father is uncreated, the Son uncreated and the Holy Spirit uncreated.


22 posted on 12/15/2010 10:11:06 AM PST by BenKenobi (Obama's book of the month, Herman Melville's Killin' Whitey)
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To: taxcontrol

You miss a couple of big points.

One, that Christ did die upon the Cross, as the passover lamb serving as the substitutionary sacrifice for our sins.

Two, Christ has forgiven our sins, and so we are forgiven if we accept him and His sacrifice. This is why Children are not damned unless they choose to turn away from Him.


24 posted on 12/15/2010 10:13:41 AM PST by BenKenobi (Obama's book of the month, Herman Melville's Killin' Whitey)
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To: taxcontrol

“That God in his grace and mercy created Jesus to pay for and atone for our sins so that we may be saved”

I hope what you mean is that Jesus became flesh in order to pay the price for our salvation. Jesus was “begotten, not made”. As the Word, He was “with God in the beginning”. To say Jesus was created as a sacrifice completely destroys the basic premise of salvation: that He CHOSE to die for my sins.


33 posted on 12/15/2010 10:40:01 AM PST by jagusafr ("We hold these truths to be self-evident...")
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To: taxcontrol
That little ‘created’ slip demonstrates the risk of restating what has already been well stated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, the maker of heaven and earth, of things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the begotten of God the Father, the Only-begotten, that is of the essence of the Father.
God of God, Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten and not made; of the very same nature of the Father, by Whom all things came into being, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible.
Who for us humanity and for our salvation came down from heaven, was incarnate, was made human, was born perfectly of the holy virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit.
By whom He took body, soul, and mind, and everything that is in man, truly and not in semblance.
He suffered, was crucified, was buried, rose again on the third day, ascended into heaven with the same body, [and] sat at the right hand of the Father.
He is to come with the same body and with the glory of the Father, to judge the living and the dead; of His kingdom there is no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, in the uncreated and the perfect; Who spoke through the Law, prophets, and Gospels; Who came down upon the Jordan, preached through the apostles, and lived in the saints.
We believe also in only One, Universal, Apostolic, and [Holy] Church; in one baptism in repentance, for the remission, and forgiveness of sins; and in the resurrection of the dead, in the everlasting judgement of souls and bodies, and the Kingdom of Heaven and in the everlasting life.[26]

47 posted on 12/15/2010 12:09:11 PM PST by TalonDJ
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To: taxcontrol
That God in his grace and mercy created Jesus

Here my FRiend, we must part ways. Jesus is NOT a created being.

62 posted on 12/16/2010 1:45:00 PM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
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