Posted on 12/17/2010 7:31:07 AM PST by marshmallow
“There is only one holy Christian church. We cannot see it, but this assembly brings together everyone who has faith in Jesus Christ as Savior.
The true church includes people from many denominations, even Catholic. But it is not exclusive to Catholics.”
That’s not what the bible teaches, unfortunately. The Church is the Bride of Christ. This is not an ‘invisible’ union, just as we ought not marry in secret. This is a visible union.
Are you one of the milkmaids or one of the farmhands Luther complained about?
Isn’t it clear that James was the brother of Jesus? Well, no. Quite apart from the cousins approach —and incidentally, Sam and John Adams were sometimes referred to as “the brothers Adams”—there is the alternative, never ruled out that James was the son of Joseph, that Joseph was a widow—much older than Mary —later 20s, say, and Mary was a young girl. Then there is much confusion about who the several James (or Jacobs) who are mentioned in the New Testament and their relation to Jesus. John and James, sons of Zebedee, may have been his cousins. Maybe not. Likewise the several Marys. These were. after all, common names. Beyond this is the general approach of the Gospels. They are not interested in the question we are talking about, Or they don’t bother to explain to US what, after all, they expected their readers to know. Paul’s letters are full of names that have no significance to us but were known to his readers. We have a great saint—Apollos—about whom we know almost nothing. We don’t know the author of “Hebrews, one of the greatest of Christian works. FAME, which is something we moderns lust for, was not something these people care much about. Back to the point, the Bible tells us very little about the Holy Family, is largely silent about his earthly life, tells us so little about his person that we haven’t a clue what he looked like. What we do know is the emphasis on her virginity. She is always the Virgin Mary as far back as we can trace. Joseph’s role is that of Guardian of mother and child. Luke says NOTHING about any siblings. That is one of the disjunctions between the writings, not unlike those between the nativity stories in Luke and Matthew. I don’t think absent tradition one can make sense of Scripture.
There are 5 solas:
Sola Scriptura—by Scripture alone
Sola Gratia—by grace alone
Sola Fide—by faith alone
Solo Christo—by Christ alone
Soli Deo Gloria—glory to God alone
I do not have any special ability to interpret scripture and I do not believe any human has/had an infallible ability to interpret scripture.
I believe you have me confused with a Catholic, for they believe their Pope is infallible and the only reliable source for interpretation.
God Bless
When people are still under the law it is not uncommon the need for “something” else...or “something more” than Christ and His sufficiency... and becomes necessary in which to validate to themselves they are worthy “enough”.
The fact you mentioned being “Permitted” to make images attest to an attitude of law...of which we are no longer bound to.
No..my arguement is not only that of making images..which is where you want to take this discussion...my arguement is that of Mary worship, and that of other departed people being sought as intercessor’s. Christ is the only mediator need and has asked us to bring all our requests to Him...never once has He directed we go thru people who have departed...and in fact warned us not to attempt to do such things.
Trying to make an arguement of the departed as being alive or dead is fruitless. They are not here....and indeed He is the God of the Living who are Here. You are attempting to evade the issue that catholics do place the departed and Mary on the same or higher level than Christ..their behavior attest to this.
And here you are once again with a cutting remark. It doesn't take long for the appearance of ungodly statements, by those who are quick to show their hand, once they are up against the wall...it is expected as part of the very heart and nature of some. Beat 'em up and knock them around should be some mottos...and that with no conviction or shame.
” catholics do place the departed and Mary on the same or higher level than Christ...”
All Catholics as your sentence implies?
Fat chance.
One of the major tenets of the world-wide Reformation was a call to end the worship of Mary and the saints which has always been a hallmark of the corrupted church of Rome.
Luther had a lot of learning to undo. A few of the earliest Reformers may have still believed Mary remained an eternal virgin, but the similarity between the truth and Rome's lies ends there.
The Protestant Reformers did not believe Mary was sinless, nor that she was assumed into heaven bodily, and certainly Mary was NOT men's intercessor, mediator, nor co-redemptrix.
All those blasphemies were heaped on Mary by the papacy. They belong to Rome alone.
Here's a great link from Albert Mohler, President of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary...
Tragically, each new Marian doctrine has moved Roman Catholic theology and devotion increasingly away from the Holy Scriptures and toward human innovation. In reality, the declaration of Mary as “God-bearer” brought ill effects upon the Catholic church. The original issue in that fifth-century debate was not Mary at all, but Christ. The council acknowledged Mary was the “God-bearer” in order to affirm the deity of Christ without question. Quickly, however, the doctrine came to magnify Mary. In popular Catholic devotion — and in the writings and sermons of popes — Mary is now called the Queen of Heaven, the Mother of all Graces, and an abundance of other unbiblical titles. By the time of the Reformation, the veneration of Mary was established Catholic piety and theology. John Calvin warned of “those titles full of anathema, by which, while they would honor the Virgin, they most grievously insult her.” And to those many others have been added. In the medieval church, Mary was already understood in a mediatorial role, and as intercessor to her Son. As Calvin retorted, praying to Mary “is assuredly altogether alien from the Word of God.” As the Bible clearly reveals, there is but one Mediator, Jesus Christ, and his mediatorial work cannot be supplemented by Mary. While careful Catholic theologians insist their Marian doctrines do not diminish or impugn the saving work of Christ, this is the inevitable result. And, though Catholics claim their veneration of Mary does not distract from the worship of the Trinity, Marian devotion has virtually eclipsed the worship of God in many quarters. Marian devotion is profoundly lacking in biblical support. Scripture reveals Mary to be a worthy model of humble submission to the will of God, as the virgin who was the mother of our Lord Jesus Christ. But Scripture does not reveal any suggestion that Mary is to be venerated, that she should be honored with unbiblical titles, that she was perpetually a virgin, that she was conceived without sin, that she was assumed into heaven before death, that she participated in any way in the atonement, or that she serves in any mediatorial role. To the contrary, the Bible makes clear the only true worship is the worship of the one true God—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This God is a jealous God who will not allow the worship of any creature—even the earthly mother of Jesus the Christ. The debates over Mary emerged anew in the Reformation and remain a major divide between evangelicals and Roman Catholics. Unfortunately, few Protestant theologians have been willing to address the debates head-on. Despite his own theological deficiencies, Karl Barth did get to the bottom of this issue. Mariology, he said, “is an excrescence” — ”a diseased construct of theological thought.” Further, “In the doctrine and worship of Mary there is disclosed the one heresy of the Roman Catholic Church which explains all the rest.” What should be our response? Barth suggested one simple word — No. Clearly, some Catholics are concerned about the ecumenical impact of the proposed new doctrines. They should well be warned. Nothing will more clearly demonstrate the profoundly unbiblical temptations of Roman Catholic theology than the adoption of these new Marian doctrines. Mary is not in any sense a co-redeemer, co-mediator, or advocate. She is not a dispenser of grace. Like all Christians, she is a sinner saved by the grace of God through the redeeming work of our Lord Jesus Christ. In reality, new papal declarations may not mean much anyway, because the proposed Marian doctrines are already firmly ensconced in popular Catholic piety. This is an infusion of paganism all evangelicals must resist. We have no right to grant to Mary—or to any saint, or to anyone else—what the Bible does not explicitly ascribe. In this we should all take Mary’s advice given as Jesus performed his first miracle: “Whatever He says to you, do it.” Nothing more—and nothing less.Currently, the (RC) church recognizes four Marian dogmas. The most important of these, Mary’s divine maternity, was defined by the Council of Ephesus in 431, granting that Mary is rightly called “God-bearer” because she was the mother of Christ. Later dogmas declared Mary’s perpetual virginity (649), Immaculate Conception (1854), and Bodily Assumption (1950).
Together all believers form the holy Christian church, a “spiritual house” made up of living stones chosen by God. When the Holy Spirit works faith in our hearts, we become part of this structure. The Lord Jesus can see the faith in our hearts. We, however, can only see the fruits of faith and not the faith itself. Because we cannot see faith, the church is invisible to our eyes.
If the shoe fits....
If I was attending a catholic church and the behavior catholics do, as well as what they believe went against the clear teaching of scripture I would not go there and in fact would leave. Catholics do not.. as their allegiance is to the catholic system of operation (Rome and or the doctrines of) and the belief if they leave they put their salvation in jeapordy.
If you are saying there are catholics who remain in the church knowing full well it’s teaching opposes what Christ teaches..then I would agree some remain..many who infact believe they are called to remain in order to “evangelize” people within the church...they see their mission as that and the catholic church as a mission field.
Good read Dr. E.....thanks.
It is sweet to hear the truth preached, isn’t it?
And so we kneel to none but Christ.
Thank God.
If that is what you believe than you are tragically ill informed. The doctrine Papal infallibility is a very highly limited condition. The infallible teachings of the Pope must be based on, or at least not contradict, Sacred Tradition or Sacred Scripture. It has only been exercised twice.
Interpretation is the function of the Magesterium to whom the task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been solely entrusted. It is comprised of the episcopacy, which is the aggregation of the current bishops of the Church in union with the Pope.
As Bishop Fulton Sheen wrote, “It may be objected: ‘Our Lord is enough for me. I have no need of her.’ But He needed her, whether we do or not. God, Who made the sun, also made the moon. The moon does not take away from the brilliance of the sun. All its light is reflected from the sun. The Blessed Mother reflects her Divine Son; without Him, she is nothing. With Him, she is the Mother of Men.”
It is sweet to hear the truth preached, isn’t it?
And so we kneel to none but Christ.
Thank God.
Yes indeed..and Amen!
“If you are saying there are catholics who remain in the church knowing full well it’s teaching opposes what Christ teaches”
The Catholic Church does not oppose what Christ teaches. It IS what Christ teaches.
Giving your opinion as the definitive of Christianity is just that, your opinion.
However, Merry Christmas to you and yours.
“III. CHRIST JESUS — “MEDIATOR AND FULLNESS OF ALL REVELATION”25
God has said everything in his Word”
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a5p2.htm
Sola Scriptura—by Scripture alone
Sola Gratia—by grace alone
Sola Fide—by faith alone
Solo Christo—by Christ alone
Soli Deo Gloria—glory to God alone
AMEN!
That is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Huh. I thought the OPC website said that the Good News of Jesus Christ was John 3:16.
All Catholics as your sentence implies?
Roman Catholics proudly tell us that as Mary told Jesus what to do, we should likewise do what Mary tells us to do.
That perspective, giving the creature any authority over the Creator, is an abomination to God.
Flee from the idolatry Rome teaches.
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