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To: ConservativeNewYorker

“Show me in the Scripture where there is a perpetual penalty box, where one must sit until an outside force determines you may either ascend to Heaven or descend to Hell.”

Isn’t that what it means when it says that our works will be tested by fire? Isn’t that sort of like a penalty box? You sit there until the works have been tested, and if you fail, you suffer and are cleansed by the fire.

“Unless of course, your friends and family contribute enough money for you to catch the express train out”

That’s a different issue, indulgences, not purgatory. You are quite right, that family and friends do not need to contribute anything for souls in purgatory in order for them to pass through. Which is what the Church teaches.

“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.”

Is ‘mediator’ the same as ‘intercessor’? No. You are quite right that there is only one ‘mediator’, and that is Christ who gave Himself as a ransom.

Christ never abandoned his faithful, the RCC chose to go with its own version of events rather than the Scripture.


40 posted on 12/17/2010 9:03:37 AM PST by BenKenobi
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To: BenKenobi
Isn’t that what it means when it says that our works will be tested by fire? Isn’t that sort of like a penalty box? You sit there until the works have been tested, and if you fail, you suffer and are cleansed by the fire.

Why is it that you guys can insert your own words right next God's Holy words and then claim that God agrees with your version of His scripture???

There is no penalty box...As we pass thru, the bad works get burned up...

We are not cleansed by a fire...We do not ourselves suffer and we are saved by the fire that burns up the bad works...

1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Your really think the Spirit of God is going to sit in a jail in purgatory waiting for your relatives to buy him out of jail???

140 posted on 12/17/2010 1:36:46 PM PST by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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To: BenKenobi
The following is what the Catholic Catechism says about Purgatory. III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY 1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.606 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.

1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."609 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.610 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead:

Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.

This is pretty much the whole dogma. The only "force" involved is the divine will.. We who pray for the dead are but beggers at the king's gate, and so are the saints within, who bow before Him who sits on the throne.

159 posted on 12/17/2010 2:10:08 PM PST by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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