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To: Godzilla; SZonian
Apostasy is the Christian expectation, although it might not be yours. 2 Thessalonians 1:1 & 3 "Now, dear brothers and sisters, let us clarify some things about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered to meet him....Don't be fooled by what they say. For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction."

The Greek is fascinating, particularly "the great rebellion" which is apostasia: a defection from truth.

This must be among only those who profess to be Christians otherwise it doesn't make sense as the world has revolted against God from the beginning. Jesus came to correct the Jews, the Hebrew remnant, yet the "falling away" or apostasy was to come later and be among the Christians.

Here's Websters (1913/1828): An abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed; a total desertion of departure from one's faith, principles, or party; esp., the renunciation of a religious faith; as, Julian's apostasy from Christianity. But, you likely know this already.

So if the Bible and its teachings are ignored, the fervent Christians deny the need for ordinations and authority or lose said authority to act what would you call that? Who can baptize and if no one why baptize, it's just symbolic anyway, right?

"No need for order or authority the Church is just all of us anyway." Nonsense, absolute nonsense.

It flies in the face of all our Lord and Master taught: 18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

PS it isn't the gates of "hell" that won't prevail that won't prevail against the Church, but Hades - the holding place of the dead. Please do the research, be open minded and avoid eisegesis. The Bible doesn't say what you want to believe it does.

For instance Josiah became king at age 8 and ruled in righteousness and restored the temple ordinances which had been utterly lost.

537 posted on 01/18/2011 5:28:30 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD; SZonian
2 Thessalonians 1:1 & 3

Uhhhh 10, context is everything now isn't it. Paul was writing about the end of the world and that Christians would be raptured. BTW, the apostasy Paul was describing has a key component - the revelation of the antichrist. Since that hasn't happened, it is not the apostasy Paul was teaching about.

Dictionaries are not valid sources of theology for Christian. Since the passage only speaks about a rebellion against God - all peoples - are involved. Take time and read the context 10 - you may learn something.

So if the Bible and its teachings are ignored, the fervent Christians deny the need for ordinations and authority or lose said authority to act what would you call that? Who can baptize and if no one why baptize, it's just symbolic anyway, right?

Still never proven that these existed in the first century church. No temples for necro dunks, or sacred (secret) ordinances. BTW, according to mormonthink a 'fervent' Christian would not be lead into apostasy because they would have truth burning in their bosom eh.

It flies in the face of all our Lord and Master taught:

And according to your mormonthink only those apostles could baptize people - uuuuuuuh you better ignore Phillip then.

PS it isn't the gates of "hell" that won't prevail that won't prevail against the Church, but Hades - the holding place of the dead. Please do the research, be open minded and avoid eisegesis. The Bible doesn't say what you want to believe it does.

LOL, nice word games 10. Your eisgesis fails you again. Were you to read in CONTEXT you would see that the focus is not necessarly on Hades or Hell, but the imagery of the GATES.

And the gates of hell ... - Ancient cities were surrounded by walls. In the gates by which they were entered were the principal places for holding courts, transacting business, and deliberating on public matters. See the notes at Matthew 7:13. Compare the notes at Job 29:7. See also Deuteronomy 22:4; 1 Samuel 4:18; Jeremiah 36:10; Genesis 19:1; Psalm 69:12; Psalm 9:14; Proverbs 1:21. The word "gates," therefore, is used for counsels, designs, machinations, evil purposes.

"Hell" means, here, the place of departed spirits, particularly evil spirits; and the meaning of the passage is, that all the plots, stratagems, and machinations of the enemies of the church would not be able to overcome it a promise that has been remarkably fulfilled.

Sorry 10, there is no need for a restoration when Christ has preserved HIS church.

539 posted on 01/18/2011 6:12:04 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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