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To: American Constitutionalist; Cvengr
1. The Spirit says clearly that in later times some believers will desert the Christian faith. They will follow spirits that deceive, and they will believe the teachings of demons.

I believe these will be those that never believed in the sufficiency of the Cross. IOW, the Holy Spirit was not indwelling them although they "played" at being a Christian. Don't forget Jesus Christ promised the Holy Spirit would be with us always.

They will teach that it's by your own merits, works, that man can bring themselves to GOD.

Now you've moved into the never ending battle with RC's and EO on one side and Evangelical Christians on the other.

50 posted on 01/03/2011 3:19:16 PM PST by wmfights (If you want change support SenateConservatives.com)
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To: wmfights
1Ti 4:1-9 (1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; (2) Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; (3) Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. (4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: (5) For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer. (6) If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained. (7) But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness. (8) For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. (9) This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation.

I believe these will be those that never believed in the sufficiency of the Cross. IOW, the Holy Spirit was not indwelling them although they "played" at being a Christian. Don't forget Jesus Christ promised the Holy Spirit would be with us always.

wm,..2 different issues at hand.

Believers are never commanded to be indwelt by God the Holy Spirit, rather God the Holy Spirit indwells the believer in this Church Age by His Volition, i.e. His Sovereign decision. That is all God's action, not ours. At the end of the Church Age, it appears the Restrainer is removed, and many identify the Restrainer as a function of the Holy Spirit. Indwelling of the believer by God the Holy Spirit is not a necessary condition for saving faith, but is an action by God by His grace at this time, and for some other believers in the Millennium. I don't know if absolutely no believers in the OT were indwelt by the HS, although their are some strong doctrinal arguments to support that position.

Back to the 1st Timothy passage, .... the same qualifier of 'faith', is also used in passages of saving faith, though might also be understood as 'doctrine', or a system of faith in our thinking or in our soul, minds and hearts.

IMHO, the passage gives a strong indication that there will be believers who fall away for these deceptions.

Aside...if the deceptions weren't so significant to very real believers, Scripture in discussing eschatology or things to come, might not devote so much reiteration of the deception to the audience of believers.

BTW, God the Holy Spirit still indwells believers who are out of fellowship with Him, although they are not being further sanctified until they return to Him in repentance and confession of sins for forgiveness. If they never return, then they simply approach the sin unto death.

54 posted on 01/04/2011 12:39:30 AM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: wmfights
Matthew chapter 5 verse 20:

20. For I tell you, unless your righteousness (your uprightness and your right standing with God) is more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus was saying that unless anyone's righteousness far exceeds that of the Scribes and Pharisees ( for they knew the law, and most of them kept the law, every jot and tittle, but yet ? they still fell short ) you, or no one can, or ever enter the Kingdom of Heaven....

But, thank GOD he has given us HIS gift of righteousness by Grace through his son our LORD Jesus Christ...
Romans chapter 5 verse 16-17

16. Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
17. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Many are offended that their own works of self righteousness won't get them their way into heaven, gain eternal life, or to GOD, for GOD's way to heaven and eternal life by Jesus Christ by Grace through faith is a " ROCK of OFFENSE " because of their unbelief and stubborn pride.
If preaching, proclaiming the truth of the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ of salvation by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ offends them, then ? they have got a major problem.
To them, Jesus Christ, GOD's way of salvation has become their stumbling block.
Yes, this should stir up, to stir up and cause people to check their own hearts to see if they are right with GOD.
60 posted on 01/05/2011 3:37:43 AM PST by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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