Posted on 01/04/2011 4:22:02 AM PST by NYer
Not true, according to the Holy Scriptures. I am not subject to any man’s “traditions.”
"Knowledge puffs up, love builds up."
Workin' on the whole humility thing here, now and always.
Who said you were? (And what is putting "traditions" in quotes meant to convey?)
One of the problems in Sola Scriptura exegesis and interpretation is a kind of over-specificity which turns out to be -- surprise! -- a Protestant tradition.
For example. Our Lord says "vain repetitions." There are two ways to think of this: (1) some repetitions are 'vain', others aren't; (2)all repetition is vain.
So, modo Protestantium, let's interpret Scripture with Scripture: Psalm 136 has 26 repetitions of "for his mercy endures for ever." Therefore atleast one instance of repetition has Scripturall warrant. Therefore interpretation (2) must be false.
Similarly, our Lord and Paul refer to "traditions of men",more or less, which I guess is close to "human tradition". So, (a)are some traditions merely human while others are, well, respectable, or (2) are all traditions equally human and equally contemptible?
We haul out our Young's Analytical and find 2 Thess 2:15 and 2 Thess 3:6.
So it seems that not all traditions are "traditions of men", not all traditions are contemptible. Consequently the common Protestant supposition about tradition appears to draw on more than mere Scripture.
This is not a conclusive argument. It is intended to slow up the hasty and possibly thoughtless discarding of all tradition and to raise the question of discernment with respect to tradition. It's a baby step, not a capturing of the field.
Look, I or other living Christians were never involved with the Rape of Constantinople or 4th Crusade. Perhaps I should be constantly accusing the "Bible Types" of murdering my ancestors in Ireland for over 400 years or closer to home perhaps you need to be apologizing to me for the Know Nothing movements or the Nativist Party activities of the 19th and 20th centuries in this country.
I engaged in aerial atrocities in Viet Nam years ago for Protestant America but sorry, I did not engage in the 1054 or 1232 activities so frequently voiced by members of your church. You need to transcend these past events.
Catholics do not stand and sit for (or to) a bell. Your BIL is misinformed or pulling your leg, or you are deliberately misrepresenting what he told you.
LOL!
To my point, what is Biblical about words without knowledge? Job 38:2.
Is it a good thing, a Biblical thing, to darken council with words without knowledge?
"Better is muteness than a hasty tongue."
Catholics do not stand or sit for a bell or by a bell or to a bell. Sometimes they kneel with a bell, but as has been said, first they kneel and the bells come later.
My understanding is that Mo' Hamed did not approve of bells which is why they have muezzins.
“One of the problems in Sola Scriptura exegesis”
And that is the rub, catholics have serious problems with relying only on God’s words.
I’m not going to multi-quote your post, but Paul spoke out against following the traditions of men. Being a former Catholic, I know the “traditions of the church” are above the words of Christ and/or Paul.
In short, trusting God’s word and His son alone has the power to save. Traditions do not.
I really do not wish to debate any more catholics with Scripture.
I'm a former Protestant, BTW.
I thought my argument suggested, if it did not prove, that the way some Protestants argue about tradition is self-contradictory, that it relies in fact on a traditional and by no means merely Scriptural interpretation of Scripture.
Certainly there's no obligation that I know of requiring you to 'debate any more catholics with Scripture," but it might be important to deal with the concept that many who claim to be Sola Scriptura in their methods are in fact following what they themselves would call "traditions of men."
You sound like a victim...
“but Paul spoke out against following the traditions of men.”
Out of curiosity, I would like to know what you believe when Paul also commends the Corinthians (1Cor11:2) for keeping to the traditions he taught them, and commands the Thessalonians (2Thes2:7) to do so. He also tells Timothy the Church (1Tim3:15)is the “pillar and ground of truth” thereby declaring it to be what is truly trustworthy. Paul also regularly refers to the Church as the body of Christ so if it is truly that, then there is no dichotomy between Christ’s trustworthiness, and the Church’s...right?
“many who claim to be Sola Scriptura in their methods are in fact following what they themselves would call “traditions of men.”
Sola Scriptura is exactly what it is. To say that it is following the traditions of men is ridiculous.
You’re confusing the “Body of Christ” with the catholic church.
You have also taken the verses that you quoted out of context. If you read the entire chapters, it is clear what points he is trying to make.
In fact 2 thes 2:7 is referring to the Holy Ghost, not a “tradition.”
Well, you’ve stated your position. But I don’t see that you’ve given any reason to believe it.
I would recommend reading Ephesians and Galatians in it’s entirety (A.V.). Paul speaks against the “traditions of his fathers” (Galatians 1:14) which led to him persecuting the new Christians.
That does not argue against my point which is that there is clear evidence that SOME traditions are to be put away. However, not only is there no evidence that ALL traditions should be put away, but some, it seems, are to be observed.
I spent several weeks in the summer of ‘09 living and praying with Ephesians. My Lent looks like it’s going to be busy but I’ll see if I can work it to spend 40 days with Galatians.
What does Lent have to do with reading the Bible? You don’t need a special occasion to read and understand the Bible? This is what I’ve been talking about. lol.
Ephesians can be read in less than 30 minutes.
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