[Alex Murphy]

None of those countries are either Protestant nor Catholic. NONE. I said it a million times, I doubt that of all the people who identify themselves as Catholics, that 1% really live Catholic lives. I DOUBT THAT 1% are real Catholics. Birth control, fornication, divorce, adultery, immoral dress, never go to confession. No, there’s few Catholics left, one here one there. When was the last time anyone saw a large Catholic family?

You make an excellent point, and one that I agree with. I've echoed a similar argument re Protestants for years:

The Catholic Church is failing to stem the tide of immorality here in America. The creedally orthodox Protestant churches are failing as well. IMO we can argue all day regarding whose numbers are increasing or decreasing, but none of it matters if cultural rot is still the result. We are failing to be salt and light.
-- Alex Murphy, December 22 2008

I wouldn't (and don't) "blame the Catholics" for Obama's win. If anything, I blame the Protestant and Evangelical churches for Obama's win, via the Hispanic and Black "Protestant" votes. Our congregations are (apparently) far more racially divided than 2004's vote let on. Hispanic and Black "Protestant" voters went for Obama in almost opposite ratios to White Protestants. That's not something the Protestant/Evangelical church should be proud of....

....In short, I believe that Christians in 2008 have lost ground, and are now too small a minority to sway elections in and of themselves. We have become strangers in a foreign land (Exodus 2:22, cf Jeremiah 5:19). That's the real story coming out of these election results, in my honest opinion.
-- Alex Murphy, November 10 2008

I think there's a reason why we didn't make a difference in the overall vote, like we (supposedly) did in 2000 and 2004. Year-by-year census numbers show that the number of believing, practicing Christians in this country has been steadily declining for decades. I think we have finally shrunk to the level where we've lost any influence over the culture, morality, or politics at large. IMO that's what the 2008 vote demographics are saying.

We can't influence the ballot box, until we start changing the hearts and minds of the unbelievers among us. We'll remain a statistical oddity, "strangers in a foreign land" (Exodus 2:22, cf Jeremiah 5:19), until we increase our numbers (and I don't mean simply filling seats in the pews). We Protestants and Evangelicals need to take the Great Commission and all Ten Commandments seriously again.
-- Alex Murphy, November 7 2008

[Cronos]

"none of it matters if cultural rot is still the result. " --> correct. And in my opinion that rot ties in to the cable of evil that we all have in our houses and to which those who are connected are all now increasingly slaves to (Catholic, Protestant, Moslem, Hindu, all now worship the glowing screen).

I take one case -- HOMOSEXUALITY and the serial "Friends". Don't get me wrong, I like the show, but I can see both in myself and in conservative friends (Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox) how it has subtly affected our stances by showing a gay couple as "ok", "normal". And this was not as extreme as Will&Grace, but you get my meaning on how this show "Friends" affected us. I believe that it also affected societies "sleeping around" and let's live together before marriage ideas, but I have no observations of that as that didn't affect my friends or me:)