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To: fish hawk

Not here. A bit of St. Paul for you, related to this:
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread. [24] And giving thanks, broke, and said: Take ye, and eat: this is my body, which shall be delivered for you: this do for the commemoration of me. [25] In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

[26] For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come. [27] Therefore whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. [28] But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of the chalice. [29] For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord.”
(http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53011.htm)
Why does he say this in this way? Because of the Real Presence.

Likewise, from a source much more eloquent than I:

“The Bible is the unerring word of God. Jesus Christ is the unerring Word of God.

Non-Catholic Christians who see the bread of life discourse in general, and Jesus’ words about “Eating his flesh” in particular, as purely metaphorical; symbolic language used by Christ to represent acceptance of the word of God (the Bible) and the Word of God (Jesus Christ) into our heart as nourishment for our souls, should take note of the verb used for the word “Eat” in the original Greek text.

This is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the word. The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.” (John 6:50-53)

In quoting Jesus Christ in verses 49 through 53 above, St. John chose to use the Greek verb phago. The lexicon at the Protestant bible study site Heartlight’s Search God’s Word defines the word phago as:
to eat
to eat (consume) a thing
When we get to verse 54 however, the author of the Fourth Gospel switches from using phago to the verb trogo. The word trogo is found five times in the Fourth Gospel and only once elsewhere in the New Testament. Trogo is used for all but once for the remainder of the bread of life discourse to describe what Jesus tells us must be done in order for us to have life within us. The same Greek lexicon referenced above defines the word trogo as:
to gnaw, crunch, chew raw vegetables or fruits (as nuts, almonds)
to eat
The Greek interlinear bible at Scripture 4 All shows the actual Greek words and the literal translation. It does a far better job at conveying the verb change from eat to chew than I can in this post. A PDF file showing the original Greek text for John 6 is available here.

Whoever eats (trogo-chews) my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats (trogo-chews) my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate (ephagon-eat, past tense) and still died, whoever eats (trogo-chews) this bread will live forever. (John 6:54-58)

While it could be argued that the verbs eat (phago) was a metaphor, simply a symbolic reference to spiritual nourishment received by consuming the word of God (bible) and accepting the Word of God (Jesus) into one’s heart, it is hard to argue the same for passages where the word chew or gnaw (trogo) are used. In quoting the Word of God, the unerring word of God seems to be pretty clear.”

(http://timhollingworth.blogspot.com/2010/08/eating-and-chewing-word-of-god-and-word.html)

There are, to be sure, metaphors in the Holy Bible. John 6, in these verses, do not contain one. I understand if you do not believe as we do. That is your choice, not mine. And I can live with that, just as you can. My task, here & now, was simply to try to explain, for your benefit, and others. By the way, sorry about being so long-winded.


23 posted on 01/21/2011 3:23:04 PM PST by sayuncledave (A cruce salus)
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To: sayuncledave

I’m sorry for you. Christ is “in me” all the time not just at Communion. He is in you also but you have to wait til Communion time evidently before you realize it.


25 posted on 01/21/2011 3:46:49 PM PST by fish hawk (reporter to old Indian: you lived here on the reservation all your life? Old Indian, "not yet".)
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To: sayuncledave

I write this with all sincerity...

Did the disciples start literally eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking his blood at the end of John 6?

Did they eat his flesh and drink his blood at the Last Supper? Matthew 26 Mark 14, Luke 22

If there was no cannibalism, its a metaphor.

The New Covenant is ratified and sealed by the blood of Jesus (see the last Supper verses cited above). Jesus is glorified sitting on the throne at the right hand of God. He has given us the Holy Spirit and made us righteous by faith (Romans 5; 2 Corinthians 5:17-21). We are now children of God, new creations, a royal priesthood, joint heirs with Christ, and his ambassadors (2 Corinthians 5:17-21, 6:17-18; Galatians 4:4-6; 1 John 3:2; Revelations 1:4-6). What else could we possibly gain by consuming his PHYSICAL body and blood at this point?

The Lord’s Supper is for remembrance. To rightly discern and remember all that we have been freely given under the New Covenant. Our focus should be on the spiritual (the Word, which is Jesus and goes into our spirit), not the physical bread and wine that simply go into the stomach and out into the sewer. (Matthew 15:1-20; Mark 7:1-23)

Jesus died once for all time. See Hebrews 10:11-18. Assuming transubstantion were true, you would be sacrificing Christ again and again as under the old covenant, which is not scriptural. Jesus is in heaven waiting until his enemies are humbled and made a footstool under his feet. He is not physically returning to earth every Sunday in a shot glass and a piece of bread.

If you are born again, you have something even better, Jesus lives in you through the Holy Spirit. You want Jesus in your heart (spirit), not your stomach.


26 posted on 01/21/2011 3:53:22 PM PST by Kandy Atz ("Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want for bread.")
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To: sayuncledave

Well, you are half right. You are quoting the Bible %100. The problem is you are interpreting wrong.


28 posted on 01/21/2011 4:10:19 PM PST by fish hawk (reporter to old Indian: you lived here on the reservation all your life? Old Indian, "not yet".)
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To: sayuncledave; fish hawk; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; ...
Whoever eats (trogo-chews) my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats (trogo-chews) my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate (ephagon-eat, past tense) and still died, whoever eats (trogo-chews) this bread will live forever. (John 6:54-58)

While it could be argued that the verbs eat (phago) was a metaphor, simply a symbolic reference to spiritual nourishment received by consuming the word of God (bible) and accepting the Word of God (Jesus) into one’s heart, it is hard to argue the same for passages where the word chew or gnaw (trogo) are used. In quoting the Word of God, the unerring word of God seems to be pretty clear.”

Chewing the host?!?! Are you crazy?!?!

You want to go to hell or something???!!!?!!

I had it beat into my head that you NEVER, EVER, EVER CHEW the host. From the time I went through my First Communion classes, we were told that you NEVER CHEW the host. That's Jesus body, you know. Would you chew Jesus' body???? Good grief!

I remember watching in horror as the occasional person would walk away from the altar chomping away. What a faux pax. How disrespectful! What a waste of taking communion.

If the Greek says to do it and the Catholic church says to not chew but rather to let dissolve, Catholics are being disobedient to Scripture in how they take communion.

291 posted on 01/23/2011 11:50:45 AM PST by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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