Posted on 01/24/2011 8:55:57 AM PST by Cincinatus' Wife
Such a position begs the question. If one only beliefs such things if given absolute proof independent of faith, then such a thought is just as alien to what God provides as not having any notion about it in the first place.
Not to worry, though, every human will be exposed to such beings in due time. It's won't be an enjoyable experience for those who reject what God provides for salvation. Meanwhile, we are also warned no to allow others take our crowns from us.
Do you know that statement is exactly equivalent to "Which are you going to place your faith in, the Bible or Orientals from China"?
God created the whole thing, ETs included. I don't imagine ETs to be God, but merely people of another race from "out there". It is just weird that religious people always equate the acceptance of the existence of ETs as equivalent to accepting them as some sort of God. They aren't. They just don't drive Fords.
Is it OK if I use a physics book to solve physics problems, a chemistry book to solve chemistry problems, or a biology book to study biology? Is "Windows for Dummies" an evil object?
The Bible doesn't really serve as an all-in-one reference, does it? It serves to describe our own relationship with God, thus providing a means of Salvation; and, through Grace at that. The emphasis is on Grace. We come to Him through a Gift of God, not by what we think or understand. Relax, enjoy the fullness of His Creation.
You’re misstating my “model” (Chinese, zebras, etc, are all accounted for in Genesis),
but we’ll just have to leave it as an agreement to disagree on this.
You could read some stuff from Answers in Genesis concerning ET’s and the bible, if you’re interested.
They are not specifically named. Neither are ETs. All of the critters of earth are lumped into "...the birds of the air, the beasts of the field, and the fish in the sea...". ETs are lumped into "...the heavens...".
The “races” here on earth all descended from one original pair of human beings, Adam and Eve. Battlestara Gallactia aside, there is no record of any other extra-terrestrial race of human beings.
Because of their sin, all creation, the entire cosmos, was subject to futility.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.Extra-terrestrials is the stuff of science fiction, not true science nor theology.
20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;
21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. (Roman. 8)
There is a lot more evidence in favor of the existance of ETs than there is for the Biblical model. You folks are putting God into a box that YOU can understand, not one that GOD can understand.
Not mine. If anything, it’d be further proof of my Faith.
Gingis wrote:
God created the whole thing, ETs included.
You have just made my point. You’ve never seen any ET’s, but you believe in them. Yet you can’t seem to believe Ezek. 28, Isa. 14, and the other passages about “the prince of this earth,” which reveal planet earth as the place where the grand cosmic fight between God and Lucifer takes place. The grand stage according to the Bible is here on earth, not one of these planets crawling with ET’s that you so fervently place your faith in.
By the way, read again what I said, I didn’t say you believed in ET’s as God, I didn’t contrast faith in ET’s as God, with faith in the Bible. Just faith in ET’s vs faith in the Bible.
I am a PK, my father was a Lutheran Pastor in the LCMS denomination. I have attended church very regularly pretty much all of my life. I have served as an Elder, Head Elder, SS teacher, and the whole shebang. I have read through the Bible countless times, and I have used a great deal of printed materials throughout those church activities. I am 61 years old.
About 25 years ago I took an interest in the UFO phenomenon, and read a great deal of material about them. Some of this material comes from the Federal government or is derived from the same. Some of the material is eyewitness ... and there are thousands of credible witnesses weighing in on this stuff, and electronic instrumentation contacts as well. You have you faith in the Bible and in Christ because of the eyewitness testimony; and, there is the same quality of witness material related to this ET/UFO material.
The material concerning ET/UFO is voluminous and detailed. The witnesses come from all social backgrounds, and many are highly credible. Government documents are very technical and detailed. This makes it very clear that such contact is real, and has been with mankind for some time.
Well, I had to integrate that material into my Faith, or simply lose that Faith. If you read what I read, you would have to exactly the same thing. It is entirely possible that you will have to perform this integration in the near future whether you like it or not. Actually, I'd suggest you start your reading and research into this topic. You're going to discover that God's Creation is a great deal bigger and more sophisticated that you can imagine.
Evidence? What evidence?
Would you actually read it if I provided the links?
People believe the stuff in the book of Mormon and Scientology. Anything is possible.
Actually, I'd suggest you start your reading and research into this topic. You're going to discover that God's Creation is a great deal bigger and more sophisticated that you can imagine.
What exactly should we be looking for? Klaatu or ET?
I was thinking more like physical, verifiable evidence. Where can I go and see ET?
The same place you go to verify Jesus: Human testimony. Many of the UFO observers are still alive; and, the same cannot be said of Jesus. Either you have faith in testimony, or you don't.
It is not worth the effort to dig all of that stuff out for you if you'll dismiss it out of hand. I really don't care if you believe in ETs or not, or whether you think they are demons or not. I couldn't convince you of this topic one way or the other. You will have to expose yourself to a considerable quantity of text with an open mind, and then decide for yourself if the phenonomem is real or imaginary.
It would be a mistake to imagine me to unintelligent or gullible. I am a computer science graduate from the "old school" when physics, math, and electronics were the working foundations. I'm pretty bright, but not socially well adjusted as is usually the case for bright people in this weird society. I am also a man of Faith. Once I read A LOT of this material, it was clear that the preponderance of evidence supports the notion of ETs and such.
It is also obvious that there is some spiritual aspect to the phenomenon. That is troublesome. Humans also tend to become so frightened during encounters that the are paralyzed, just like deer in the headlights.
There is a lot of reading material. Some of it indicates that the government has physical evidence in its possession. There are also incidents related to exposure of randomly selected citizens to ET artifacts in order to gage the reactions of the observer; and, the results tend to justify continued suppression of this knowledge.
It would be quite an effort for me to ferret out that information for you. I will seed your curiosity only if you are sincere about beginning your own research into the matter. I don't keep this material at hand; and, it would be quite a chore to recover it for you. Don't waste my time, I have too little of that.
If you think this would endanger your Faith, then don't pursue this. Like I said before, I had to integrate this into my Faith or suffer the loss of that Faith. The Bible amounts to a "Relationships with God for Dummies" book. God would have no more luck explaining the workings of Creation to you than you would have explaining the operation of the cellular telephone system to an emu.
Biblical faith, faith in divine testimony, is hardly the same as the stuff you are peddling. You are required to have faith in the testimony of fallible men for “things unseen.” Perhaps you don't see the difference.
It is also obvious that there is some spiritual aspect to the phenomenon.
Actually, it's not obvious. At least it is not any more obvious than the claims of Joseph Smith and the foundation of Mormonism. There's really nothing spiritual about it. It's just a fraud.
If you think this would endanger your Faith, then don't pursue this.
It's not a question of endangering my faith. It's more a question of it being a waste of time. What I've seen so far that all it is. Frankly, I don't wish to have a relationship with ET, even if it did exist. Humans are interesting enough.
Just a rhetorical question for you to think about:
What evidence did you read that couldn’t be the result of demonic/satanic deception?
It’s a rhetorical question, so I don’t expect you to waste time replying, and I’m not trying to be snarky.
I don’t quite undeerstand what you’re saying? I think faith has it’s limits. My faith ends with a belief in God, which I cannot prove, but I do not believe in demons, aliens, fairies, etc.
Does everyone get exposed to demons and/or aliens before they die? If so, I would think that there would be more written about it.
Crash/retrieval reports that described machinery. Demons don't need ships that can be reverse engineered.
Magi from "the East"???
St. Matthew didn't say exactly where they came from ... just that they were from "the East" and were following a star ...
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