I agree with that. His grace is sufficient. Let’s hope we’re talking about the same Grace giver.
Say what? Typical twisted distortment by Lds.org!
I mean instead of staying on Scripture there about glorying in weakness, we have suddenly a focus on trying to be your strongest ("do my best...")!
And then, in order to somehow "qualify" for Christ's power to rest on her, she feels she needs to "earn" that by obeying the commandments...as if we obey them because of "what's in it for ME" -- to nab His power as some sort of legalistic trigger!
Jesus said "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick...For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."--Mt 9:12) Jesus is for the weak person who understands the cancerous diagnosis of sin, and can't on their own obey commands...they need His empowerment before they can obey...not the other way around -- that they obey SO (that) -- or in order to -- commandeer Christ's power.
Leave it to Mormonism to turn the Bible on its head yet again.
2 NEPHI 25:23: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”
Does the mormon of today know without a shadow of doubt that they have done all they can do to prove worthy for that grace? One reads elsewhere:
MORONI 10:32: “Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.”
Well, this is more specific - except that ALL ungodliness must be denied by the mormon. Hmmmmm - oh yes, the article says by repenting - yes. Then one reads:
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 58:43: “By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins—behold, he will confess them and forsake them.”
What does forsake mean? Why Spencer W. Kimball wrote in "The Miracle of Forgiveness" (written at the direction and blessing of the prophet) "“There is one crucial test of repentance. This is abandonment of the sin" and that this "Discontinuance of the sin must be permanent.". Oh, that is a pretty steep order, will the mormon god cut the mormon any slack?
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 1:31-32: “For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance; Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven.”
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS 82:7: “And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.”
Wow, the mormon god cannot look upon sin with any allowance PLUS if the mormon sins they are saddled with the OLD sins as well. This doesn't look too good for the mormon seeking 'grace'.
Well, may be the other mormon scripture may help me out -
JAMES 2:10: “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.”
1 JOHN 1: 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
So, there is no way out for the mormon to attain his grace here either. What is left?
ALMA 11:37: “And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.” Well the mormon is stuck by his own doctrine - in order to prove worthy for the grace of the mormon god, they must be sinless and completely godly - however the path for the mormon is impossible to attain.
"Seekers of Truth" as PD would say - is this what you want in your life? How can the mormon god promise you forgiveness when he holds you accountable for every sin you repeatedly commit? It is not without cause that we liken mushy messages as this article a used car salesman pitch - sound like true Christianity just enough to get them in, then switch on them.
Straight up question for you PD - are you perfect as Jesus commanded in Matthew?
WARNING: THIS THREAD HAS BEEN FLAGGED AS CULTIC MORMON SPAM BY FREEREPUBLIC’S FLYING INMAN (multi-denominational) CHRISTIAN TEAM.
As such, it is a perversion of Christian truth and stands in opposition to the Bible’s clear teaching.
READER BEWARE
Paul was writing to Christians, not mormons, and he was clear that the power of Christ made perfect in Paul's weakness was not the result of dilligent repentance and adherence to commandments from/by Paul! Moronism is not Christianity, and the god and jesus of Mormonism are not the same God/Jesus of The Bible.
Not according to Spencer W. Kimball. All quotes are from his book “the Miracle of Forgiveness”. It isn’t about grace at all, it is about works. Grace only ‘kicks in’ after all we can do, it isn’t enough in Mormonism to clease us from all sin.
So the question becomes, for Mormons, what is Christ’s grace sufficent for? Only Resurrection (which is how they define ‘saved by grace’).
* “We understood also that after a period varying from seconds to decades of mortal life we would die, our bodies would go back to Mother Earth from which they had been created, and our spirits would go to the spirit world, where we would further train for our eternal destiny. After a period, there would be a resurrection or a reunion of the body and the spirit, which would render us immortal and make possible our further climb toward perfection and godhood.” (p. 5)
* “The Lord will not translate one’s good hopes and desires and intentions into works. Each of us must do that for himself.” (p. 8)
* “It is true that many Latter-day Saints, having been baptized and confirmed members of the Church, and some even having received their endowments and having been married and sealed in the holy temple, have felt that they were thus guaranteed the blessings of exaltation and eternal life. But this is not so. There are two basic requirements every soul must fulfill or he cannot attain to the great blessings offered. He must receive the ordinances and he must be faithful, overcoming his weaknesses. Hence, not all who claim to be Latter-day Saints will be exalted. But for those Latter-day Saints who are valiant, who fulfill the requirements faithfully and fully, the promises are glorious beyond description: ‘Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.’ (D&C 132:20)” (p. 9)
* “There are even many members of the Church who are lax and careless and who continually procrastinate. They live the gospel casually but not devoutly. They have complied with some requirements but are not valiant. They do no major crime but merely fail to do the things required—things like paying tithing, living the Word of Wisdom, having family prayers, fasting, attending meetings, serving. Perhaps they do not consider such omissions to be sins, yet these were the kinds of things of which the five foolish virgins of Jesus’ parable were probably guilty. The ten virgins belonged to the kingdom and had every right to the blessings—except that five were not valiant and were not ready when the great day came. They were unprepared through not living all the commandments. They were bitterly disappointed at being shut out from the marriage—as likewise their modern counterparts will be... Because men are prone to postpone action and ignore directions, the Lord has repeatedly given strict injunctions and issued solemn warnings. Again and again in different phraseology and throughout the centuries the Lord has reminded man so that he could never have excuse. And the burden of the prophetic warning has been that the time to act is now, in this mortal life. One cannot with impunity delay his compliance with God’s commandments.” (pp. 7–10)
* “All sins but those excepted by the Lord-—basically, the sin against the Holy Ghost, and murder-—will be forgiven to those who totally, consistently, and continuously repent in a genuine and comprehensive transformation of life... This earth life is the time to repent. We cannot afford to take any chances of dying an enemy to God.” (p. 14, 15)
* “The reason is forthrightly stated by Nephi— ‘. . . There cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God . . .’ (1 Ne. 15:34.) And again, ‘. . . no unclean thing can dwell with God . . .’ (1 Ne. 10:21.) To the prophets the term unclean in this context means what it means to God. To man the word may be relative in meaning—one minute speck of dirt does not make a white shirt or dress unclean, for example. But to God who is perfection, cleanliness means moral and personal cleanliness. Less than that is, in one degree or another, uncleanliness and hence cannot dwell with God.” (p. 19)[4]
* “Repentance is inseparable from time. No one can repent on the cross, nor in prison, nor in custody. One must have the opportunity of committing wrong in order to be really repentant. The man in handcuffs, the prisoner in the penitentiary, the man as he drowns, or as he dies-—such a man certainly cannot repent totally. He can wish to do it, he may intend to change his life, he may determine that he will, but that is only the beginning. That is why we should not wait for the life beyond but should abandon evil habits and weaknesses while in the flesh on the earth... Clearly it is difficult to repent in the spirit world of sins involving physical habits and actions. There one has spirit and mind but not the physical power to overcome a physical habit” (p. 83).
* “True repentance is not only sorrow for sins, and humble penitence and contrition before God, but it involves the necessity of turning away from them, a discontinuance of all evil practices and deeds, a thorough reformation of life, a vital change from evil to good, from vice to virtue, from darkness to light.” (p. 149)
* “There is one crucial test of repentance. This is abandonment of the sin. Desire is not sufficient. In other words, it is not real repentance until one has abandoned the error of his ways and started on a new path… the saving power does not extend to him who merely wants to change his life. Trying is not sufficient.” (p. 163)
* “That is why we should not wait for the life beyond but should abandon evil habits and weaknesses while in the flesh on the earth. Elder Melvin J. Ballard pinpointed this problem: A man may receive the priesthood and all its privileges and blessings, but until he learns to overcome the flesh, his temper, his tongue, his disposition to indulge in the things God has forbidden, he cannot come into the celestial kingdom of God-he must overcome either in this life or in the life to come. But this life is the time in which men are to repent. Do not let any of us imagine that we can go down to the grave not having overcome the corruptions of the flesh and then lose in the grave all our sins and evil tendencies. They will be with us. They will be with the spirit when separated from the body. Clearly it is difficult to repent in the spirit world of sins involving physical habits and actions. There one has spirit and mind but not the physical power to overcome a physical habit. He can desire to change his life, but how can he overcome the lusts of the flesh unless he has flesh to control and transform? How can he overcome the tobacco or the drink habit in the spirit world where there is no liquor nor tobacco and no flesh to crave it? Similarly with other sins involving lack of control over the body.” (p. 163)
* “Perhaps one reason murder is so heinous is that man cannot restore life. Man’s mortal life is given him in which to repent and prepare himself for eternity, and should one of his fellowmen terminate his life and thus limit his progress by making his repentance impossible it is a ghastly deed, a tremendous responsibility for which the murderer may not be able to atone in his lifetime” (p. 188)
* “Repentance must involve an all-out, total surrender to the program of the Lord. That transgressor is not fully repentant who neglects his tithing, misses his meetings, breaks the Sabbath, fails in his family prayers, does not sustain the authorities of the Church, breaks the Word of Wisdom, does not love the Lord nor his fellowmen. A reforming adulterer who drinks or curses is not repentant. The repenting burglar who has sex play is not ready for forgiveness. God cannot forgive unless the transgressor shows a true repentance which spreads to all areas of his life.” (p. 203)[4]
* “One of the most fallacious doctrines originated by Satan and propounded by man is that man is saved alone by the grace of God; that belief in Jesus Christ alone is all that is needed for salvation.” (pp. 206-207)
* “Eternal life hangs in the balance awaiting the works of men. This process toward eternal life is a matter of achieving perfection. Living all the commandments guarantees total forgiveness of sins and assures one of exaltation through the perfection which comes by complying with the formula the Lord gave us... Being perfect means to triumph over sin. This is a mandate from the Lord. He is just and wise and kind. He would never require anything from his children which was not for their benefit and which was not attainable. Perfection therefore is an achievable goal. ... Christ became perfect through overcoming. Only as we overcome shall we become perfect and move toward godhood. As I have indicated previously, the time to do this is now, in mortality.” (p. 208-209)
* “In the context of the spirit of forgiveness, one good brother asked me, “Yes, that is what ought to be done, but how do you do it? Doesn’t that take a superman?’ ‘Yes,’ I said, ‘but we are commanded to be supermen. Said the Lord, ‘Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.’ (Matt. 5:48.) We are gods in embryo, and the Lord demands perfection of us.’” (p. 286)
* “I have referred previously to the significance of this life in the application of repentance but will emphasize it here in relation to the eventual judgment. One cannot delay repentance until the next life, the spirit world, and there prepare properly for the day of judgment while the ordinance work is done for him vicariously on earth. It must be remembered that vicarious work for the dead is for those who could not do the work for themselves. Men and women who live in mortality and who have heard the gospel here have had their day, their seventy years to put their lives in harmony, to perform the ordinances, to repent and to perfect their lives.” (pp. 313-314)
* “Little reward can be expected for a tiny effort to repent, for the Lord has said that it must be a total repentance “with all his heart” and the error must be forsaken fully and wholly, mentally as well as physically. The “filthy dreamer” of the day or night, or an adulterer who still has desires toward the object of his sin, who still revels in the memories of his sin, has not forsaken it “with all his heart” as required by holy scripture.” (p. 333)
* “Your Heavenly Father has promised forgiveness upon total repentance and meeting all the requirements, but that forgiveness is not granted merely for the asking. There must be works—many works—and an all-out, total surrender, with a great humility and ‘a broken heart and a contrite spirit.’ It depends upon you whether or not you are forgiven, and when. It could he weeks, it could he years, it could be centuries before that happy day when you have the positive assurance that the Lord has forgiven you. That depends on your humility your sincerity, your works, your attitudes” (pp. 324-325).
* “This passage indicates an attitude which is basic to the sanctification we should all be seeking, and thus to the repentance which merits forgiveness. It is that the former transgressor must have reached a “point of no return” to sin wherein there is not merely a renunciation but also a deep abhorrence of the sin where the sin becomes most distasteful to him and where the desire or urge to sin is cleared out of his life.” (pp. 354-355)
* “We can hardly be too forceful in reminding people that they cannot sin and be forgiven and then sin again and again and expect repeated forgiveness. The Lord anticipated the weakness of men which would return him to his transgression and he gave this warning (D&C 82:7)”. (p. 360)
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AoF #3
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
or...
Mosiah 3:21
And behold, when that time cometh, none shall be found blameless before God, except it be little children, only through repentance and faith on the name of the Lord God Omnipotent.
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