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The Collapse of Cultural Catholicism
Standing on My Head ^ | 1/27/11 | Fr. Dwight Longenecker

Posted on 01/28/2011 9:32:34 AM PST by marshmallow

Shery Weddell at the St Catherine of Siena Institute reports that 32% of Americans raised Catholic abandon the identity altogether by their mid twenties. An additional 38% retain the identity but rarely practice their faith. 30% of those who call themselves Catholic attend Mass only once a month. On a given Sunday only about 15.6% of American Catholics attend Mass.

What is the reason for these disastrous statistics? Basically because for the last forty years Catholics themselves have not taught Catholicism to their children. They've taught 'American Catholicism' which is a watered down blend of sentimentalism, political correctness, community activism and utilitarianism. In other words, "Catholicism is about feeling good about yourself, being just to others and trying to change the world." The next generation have drawn the obvious conclusion that you don't need to go to Mass to do all that. You can feel good about yourself much more effectively with a good book from the self help shelf, or by attending a personal development seminar. You can be involved in making the world a better place without going to church.

If only 15% of Catholics go to Mass on a given Sunday, look around and see how many of them are old. Even the 15% who are there won't be there for very long.

The solution is simple: we must return to the supernatural realities of the historic faith and evangelize like the Apostles of old. The big difference is that the Apostles knew their targets were pagans and the pagans knew they weren't Christians. We're dealing with a huge population of Americans (Catholics and Protestants alike) who are pagan but who think they're 'good Christians.' It is very difficult to evangelize people who already think they're fine just as they are. We don't know what we don't know, and the vast majority of poorly catechized, lazy and worldly Catholics aren't aware that there's anything wrong.

What will it take for us to wake up?


TOPICS: Catholic; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology
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1 posted on 01/28/2011 9:32:36 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow; BenKenobi

Ping!


2 posted on 01/28/2011 9:33:14 AM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

I’m sure catholic radio is making a difference.


3 posted on 01/28/2011 9:38:22 AM PST by diamond6 (Buy American!!!! Stop supporting China's economy, support the USA!)
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To: marshmallow; Dr. Eckleburg; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; RnMomof7
The solution is simple: we must return to the supernatural realities of the historic faith and evangelize like the Apostles of old.

Sounds like Protestantism.

4 posted on 01/28/2011 10:06:59 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: marshmallow

I would recommend STRONGLY, getting a copy of The Truth Project video. It is a stunning and intellectually demanding 12 video production on Christian vs secular worldviews and the battle between Godly and Satanic worldviews. I do not use the word “stunning” lightly.

The series is not produced by Catholics—so maybe that is an issue for you. But I’ve never seen any video presentation that goes to the heart of what is wrong with society and the church like this one.

I grew up high-church Episcopalian. So I’m acquainted with the sacramental, apostolic tradition and I have seen nothing in this series that would offend devout Catholics—indeed, it is ecumenical in the good sense of that word. That is, it is directed to believing Christians regardless of denomination and demands that we take the side of our Savior and demands that we realize there are two sides. It does not pick at differences between believing Christians but highlights the gulf between us, on the one hand, and the world on the other. In reality, believing Catholics and Protestants have far more in common with each other than they do with their worldly acquaintances. So the series is not ecumenical in the modern sense of “water down everything until it is no longer means anything.”

If your question is “what do we do,” I would strongly recommend telling everyone you know about this series. If that doesn’t work, maybe you could agitate for the Catholic Church to collaborate with Focus on the Family on a similar project targeted specifically to Catholics or to do their own, similar project?? Seriously, the video is a life and a church-changer.

The problem is Jesus has lost the hearts and minds of far too many Christians and they run far too many of our churches. After watching this series, you almost have to decide: “Am I going to become a real Christian and get on the right side of the gulf or will the world win my heart and those of my fellow Christians.”


5 posted on 01/28/2011 10:22:49 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: marshmallow
Catholics themselves have not taught Catholicism to their children

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the church's pedophile priest cover up scandals, and nothing to do with the fact the the church bureuacracy strongly supports redistributionist/socialist policies Look here under "social justice" WIth the exception of abortion, Pelosi and her liberal brain dead zombies who write her stuff could have written the church's policy on wealth redistribution, gun control, etc. I'm sure the excesses of "Father" Pfleger and his vicious attacks against conservatives (never condemned by the church) have nothing to do with it. No it has to be that Catholics are doing enough.

Nah, none of this has anything to do with the drift of people away form the churh.

6 posted on 01/28/2011 10:26:25 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your most dangerous enemy is your own government,)
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To: topcat54
Sounds like Protestantism.

Exactly.

There was no evangelization prior to 1517.

7 posted on 01/28/2011 10:30:06 AM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow
There was no evangelization prior to 1517.

Or Protestantism is older that you think.

8 posted on 01/28/2011 10:58:56 AM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: topcat54; marshmallow; Gamecock; Alex Murphy; RnMomof7; metmom; blue-duncan; HarleyD; wmfights; ...
(The solution is simple: we must return to the supernatural realities of the historic faith and evangelize like the Apostles of old.)

Sounds like Protestantism.

lol. Exactly.

"All who are sent to teach the word are sent to carry on a contest. It is therefore not enough to teach faithfully what God commands, except we also contend...We have a contest with the Devil, with the world, and with all the wicked." -- Calvin, Jon.-Nah. 234-235.

9 posted on 01/28/2011 11:17:42 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: marshmallow

Should make this a Catholic Caucus.


10 posted on 01/28/2011 11:24:03 AM PST by verdugo
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

“In the country of Blind men, the one eyed man is a king”.

Just because Catholics do not live the faith, does not mean that other religions with no standards are real Christians. Contraceptives?


11 posted on 01/28/2011 11:29:58 AM PST by verdugo
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To: marshmallow
There was no evangelization prior to 1517.

That's not true.

12 posted on 01/28/2011 11:30:38 AM PST by what's up
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To: verdugo

Agreed. I don’t want to read anything that anti-Catholic bigots have to say about this.


13 posted on 01/28/2011 11:33:35 AM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: verdugo
Contraceptives???

lol.

Rome cannot see the forest for the trees. Rome gets so much of Scripture wrong that it seems to prefer to wrestle over fairly inconsequential matters while ignoring the elephant in the room - its pagan, anti-Scriptural beliefs in "another Christ" and a "co-redeemer."

14 posted on 01/28/2011 11:34:49 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Whatever.


15 posted on 01/28/2011 11:38:11 AM PST by verdugo
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Can’t the non-Catholics stick to their own threads? Can’t they comment on their own beliefs?


16 posted on 01/28/2011 11:38:53 AM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: verdugo

This will inevitably become an anti-Catholic spitwad 7th grade stupid thread, just like so many others.

I see no point in any Catholic comments on it, since there will be no chance for intelligent discussion.


17 posted on 01/28/2011 11:42:58 AM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne

Obviously not.... They live for this and then they ping their buddies to gang up on you.


18 posted on 01/28/2011 11:52:40 AM PST by diamond6 (Buy American!!!! Stop supporting China's economy, support the USA!)
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To: verdugo
Should make this a Catholic Caucus.

Yeah, I hear ya, but it does contain the word "Protestants" so...........ya know........

19 posted on 01/28/2011 12:00:24 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

marshmallow:

Friendly suggestion. Put a Catholic Caucas label on this thread and maybe allow our close friends in the Eastern Orthodox Church here to discuss it but as Father Z says over at What Does Prayer Say “Don’t feed the trolls”

Let that bunch go discuss their own issues among themselves.


20 posted on 01/28/2011 12:01:08 PM PST by CTrent1564
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To: Judith Anne
This will inevitably become an anti-Catholic spitwad 7th grade stupid thread, just like so many others.

Painful to behold, I know, but believe it or not, ultimately beneficial to Catholicism, I believe.

Negativity and sneering are ultimately counterproductive in the long run.

21 posted on 01/28/2011 12:04:16 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: CTrent1564

See post #19.


22 posted on 01/28/2011 12:04:59 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

marshmallow:

I agree, there has been an overall trend towards secularism in the U.S. period. and the article does speak to that tangentially. However, the specifics of the Article are dealing with the collapse of an overall Catholic Culture and not the overall trending in the U.S. towards a larger group of americans holding more relativistic views.

Just my 2 cents.


23 posted on 01/28/2011 12:08:37 PM PST by CTrent1564
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To: diamond6; Judith Anne; topcat54; 1000 silverlings; metmom; RnMomof7; blue-duncan; Alex Murphy; ...
They live for this and then they ping their buddies to gang up on you.

There's no better place to preach the word of God than on threads like these where Scripture is being twisted to produce error and "vain jangling."

"For the Lord GOD will help me; therefore shall I not be confounded: therefore have I set my face like a flint, and I know that I shall not be ashamed.

He is near that justifieth me; who will contend with me? let us stand together: who is mine adversary? let him come near to me.

Behold, the Lord GOD will help me; who is he that shall condemn me? lo, they all shall wax old as a garment; the moth shall eat them up.

Who is among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God.

Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow." -- Isaiah 50:7-11


24 posted on 01/28/2011 12:15:13 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Why don’t you stay off our threads and well gladly staff off yours. You’re nor going to convince us nor we you so what’s the point. Even Christ told his apostles to shake the dust off their sandals and depart...yet you guys just keep on coming back and coming back and coming back. With all due respect you need to just get over yourselves and leave us alone.


25 posted on 01/28/2011 12:23:12 PM PST by diamond6 (Buy American!!!! Stop supporting China's economy, support the USA!)
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To: verdugo
Just because Catholics do not live the faith, does not mean that other religions with no standards are real Christians. Contraceptives?

What are the standards necessary to be a Christian?

26 posted on 01/28/2011 12:24:28 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God’s truth is attacked and yet would remain silent.” John Calvin


27 posted on 01/28/2011 12:27:22 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Judith Anne; Dr. Eckleburg
Can’t the non-Catholics stick to their own threads? Can’t they comment on their own beliefs?

We’re just here to brighten up the RC ghetto. :-) If you add the “caucus” label we know to stay out. Although even Jesus worked among the lepers.

28 posted on 01/28/2011 12:33:18 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- an error of Biblical proportions.")
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To: verdugo

Yes otherwise it will turn into a Catholic bashing. I think it qualifies since the article does not mention any other faith or sect.


29 posted on 01/28/2011 12:34:04 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Judith Anne

Nope. They are like dogs with a one flea itch.


30 posted on 01/28/2011 12:35:13 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: marshmallow

Edit out that last part. The article still stands on its own merits.


31 posted on 01/28/2011 12:36:36 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: topcat54

And we have learned the folly of casting pearls before swine.


32 posted on 01/28/2011 12:38:35 PM PST by lastchance (Hug your babies.)
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To: Judith Anne
No doubt the rabidly outrageous papist bigots will be greatly edifying!

Photobucket

33 posted on 01/28/2011 1:03:57 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Judith Anne
No doubt the rabidly outrageous papist bigots will be greatly edifying!

Photobucket

34 posted on 01/28/2011 1:03:57 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: RnMomof7
What are the standards necessary to be a Christian?

Why ask a Catholic? As you have posted, you are a former Catholic. Why don't you go ask your present church leaders?

35 posted on 01/28/2011 1:06:20 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: RnMomof7
A dog barks when his master is attacked. I would be a coward if I saw that God’s truth is attacked and yet would remain silent.” John Calvin

What in the article specifically attacked "God's Truth, to cause you to "bark"?

36 posted on 01/28/2011 1:09:25 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: diamond6; topcat54; metmom; blue-duncan; RnMomof7; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; caww; boatbums; ..
Why don’t you stay off our threads and well gladly staff off yours.

Happily, if Rome, like the LDS, would simply give up the name of "Christian."

As long as Rome purports to be a Christian faith, and yet so mangles the truth of Scripture and the knowledge of Christ that it follows "another Christ" and prays to a "co-redeemer," we will be here to set the record straight, according to the word of God alone.

You’re nor going to convince us nor we you so what’s the point.

Only God gives new eyes and new ears to know the things of God. It's 100% up to Him who is "convinced" and who isn't.

Our responsibility is simply to preach the Gospel in truth. Amazingly, that task gets easier the more we do it because as we study the Scriptures we continue to learn and grow in faith. As God wills.

Even Christ told his apostles to shake the dust off their sandals and depart...yet you guys just keep on coming back and coming back and coming back.

Thank you. If God does not weary, why should we?

"Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding.

He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength.

Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:

But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." -- Isaiah 40:28-31

With all due respect you need to just get over yourselves and leave us alone.

"But ye, brethren, be not weary in well doing.

And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." -- 2 Thess. 3:13-15.

Lucky you.

37 posted on 01/28/2011 1:10:52 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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Comment #38 Removed by Moderator

To: Dr. Eckleburg
if Rome, like the LDS, would simply give up the name of "Christian."

You go first.

39 posted on 01/28/2011 1:18:36 PM PST by Campion
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To: Campion; Dr. Eckleburg; diamond6; marshmallow; aruanan; RnMomof7

Have any of you seen this post, it’s HILARIOUS!!!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2662931/posts?page=23#23


40 posted on 01/28/2011 1:20:27 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Judith Anne; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
Photobucket


Evidently said as though

Rabid Clique RC's avoid doing the same sorts of things on Proddy threads--only meaner, more vindictively, more personally harsh and abusive and more relentlessly for the last 10+ years.

Olympic class hypocrisy strikes again!

Photobucket

41 posted on 01/28/2011 1:21:03 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: CTrent1564; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...

Which part of

IT DOES NOT QUALIFY FOR A CAUCUS DESIGNATION

is difficult to understand?

I’m sure a Proddy could explain it without having to resort to the Vatican AIWSOTARM’s DAFFYNITIONARY.


42 posted on 01/28/2011 1:23:18 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Quix

I cannot think of any response I could make to your multiple insulting posts that the Holy Spirit would regard as a blessing.

Please do not make this personal with multiple pictures to me, and please do not post to me again.


43 posted on 01/28/2011 1:23:56 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

INDEED.


44 posted on 01/28/2011 1:24:02 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Judith Anne
Very good.

Captures the whole irrational.....excuse me........"predestined".......fairy tale in its entirety.

45 posted on 01/28/2011 1:29:41 PM PST by marshmallow ("A country which kills its own children has no future" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta)
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To: marshmallow

I was impressed! Also, I laughed out loud. ;-D


46 posted on 01/28/2011 1:35:13 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: diamond6; Amityschild; Brad's Gramma; Captain Beyond; Cvengr; DvdMom; firebrand; ...
I gather you're not aware of the arrogantly self-righteous, haughty, fiercely hostile, baiting, personally abusive, nose tweaking, stick poking, cat calling, hypocritical outrageousness. . . . of the RC rabid clique types hereon against Proddys for the whole of FR's existence?

It's

!!!!TRADITION!!!!

I thought RC's were

INTO
!!!!TRADITION!!!!

Photobucket

.

Of course, if ALL the RC's were of a mind to reform and begin behaving like "Christians," perhaps some sensible sea change in posting could be negotiated.

I can certainly appreciate that with the recent posting of the horrible facts in the stats that y'all have a greatly increased motivation to shut the truth up.

And while I'm certain that no Proddy would agree to hiding the truth about Roman Catholocism, it MIGHT be possible to negotiate more civil exchanges.

However, I don't think the RC's could manage the awesome task of policing their own.

I'm not saying that Proddys would jump at any and every infraction. However, it wouldn't take much and the games would be on again. Y'all wouldn't have endless sniping attacks getting endless free passes. Nor would you get away with baiting thread titles and the like. Nor would you get away with outrageous Maryolatry blasphemies.

So I'm skeptical that y'all can even begin to live within such a new standard. However, if you think you can, then, by all means, let the negotiations begin. Some of us have tried repeatedly to achieve such. Some of us are willing to try again.

47 posted on 01/28/2011 1:36:33 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: topcat54

Goodness. Please be seated before reading further to avoid damage from fainting.

Another modern miracle.

I agree with you.


48 posted on 01/28/2011 1:38:07 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: Judith Anne

I asked because I wanted to know what he considered the standards to be


49 posted on 01/28/2011 1:39:53 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: Campion
Why should I give up the name of Christian? I don't believe in "another Christ." I don't pray to a "co-redeemer."

Those are hallmarks of a pagan cult. Read your Bible.

50 posted on 01/28/2011 1:41:36 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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